Do you stretch/form roll before benching?

Yeah. Last night I did "sticky scap" SMR on my back, SMRed rotator cuff areas, SMR'd my first rib area (not a ton but a bit), supernova'd my lats and other rotator cuff areas and triceps a bit, and voodoo banded my upper arm down to below my elbow.

I forgot to do thoracic spine mobility or any activation type things (wall slides) that I often try to do too but sometimes forget. That I would say is generally my routine for bench days.

Weird injury. Hope it's nothing serious and gets fixed soon.

Seems that is the a/c joint and sometimes can be called "weightlifters shoulder". Lol me?

http://www.shoulderinstitute.co.za/a...generation.php

I wouldn't think this should be a very big cause for concern given I don't have a history of experiencing it. But maybe my recent bench gains and additional volume has lead to it somewhat, I dno.

knowing yugo it has to be safe

This seems potentially helpful: http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/03/e...oulder-health/.

It could be doing DLs with mixed grips is pulling my left shoulder into too much of a front position, especially since I don't retract/pull my shoulder blades together when I DL. Then when I unracked my 2nd work set I lost tension/tightness/whatever in my shoulder and it wasn't in ideal alignment for the actually reps. On the 3rd set I also wasn't able to unrack it optimally, especially since I had a more inflamed a/c joint at this point and it went from not great to worse. Glad I didn't force that second rep all the way up...wish I had shut it down sooner on that 3rd set.

My own assessment at this point is that I need to fix my DL (need to do this anyway).

Possibly do shoulder distractions before benching and either get better at unracking heavy weights myself or only do 90%+ type weights with liftoff.

I have no idea how my future setup will be in terms of unracking but at the gym I go to I seem to be able to unrack well myself. But I think with these heavier sets, I do give the bar just a bit of a push and it's not a completely horizontal unrack, which I believe I do successfully with lighter weights.

I dont know for sure, but I think its way more likely that unracking the bar poorly for a heavy bench set will do a lot more damage to your shoulders than DLs. I need to see wtf is going on with your DLs. If you think they are ****ing up your shoulder, I think you're probably doing something very wrong.

I don't think DLS are messing up my shoulder. I think it could be pulling it into an unfavorable position in the a/c joint and it may be why unracking and benching caused such an issue. There may not have been very good shoulder stability and even less after a poor unracking of the weight.

If the joint doesn't seem better by Monday I will likely go see Dr k

I watched that video you linked. I think I can see now why you think a DL might have aggravated the shoulder. If that did happen, I think you probably let your shoulder blades roll up and didnt use your lats to keep them down. That would put the joint in a bad position.

yeah, unracking the weight and letting your back come loose will really mess things up if you bench after that. If that ever happens in the future and you're aware that you unracked it bad before you do any reps, stop the set & rerack the weight.

I actually didn't look at the videos until now for some reason. How much do you weigh now? and what point is there in waiting until you can pull 405 in order to switch to sumo?

The more I know about sumo, the less I think Yugo should ever do it. Yugo, you dont have anywhere near the hip strength to be successful at sumo for a long time. Watch this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioo4LKjwQfg

With the problems you have keeping your knees out squatting, you will be asking for knee issues if you do sumos imo.

Also, conventional DLs have better carry-over to everyday use and general strength and fitness than sumos do. Sumos are good for a specific thing - moving more weight if you are better at them than conventional DLs. You arent planning to powerlift anyways, so I dont see any reason for you to do them.

http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...one-structure/

imo

Agreed. When I do 180/185lbs territory, the unrack feels not awkward. I assume I could tell if the unrack was "bad" vs. "fine".

However, at 200lbs+ the unrack feels awkward and heavy. I'm not sure I can tell the difference at that weight between "acceptable" and "bad" unracking tbh. This probably means I need liftoff for any weight > 90% of my 1rm.

I could tell on the 3rd set unracking didn't go well, I shouldn't have done the first rep, let alone tried the second. But the 2nd set (which I now assume was a bad unrack) I couldn't tell.

I weighed 184.2lbs this morning but my 7day weight average is at 185.5. So, 185-186 most likely.

The point of waiting until I can pull 405? I dno, arbitrary. Cha has said repeatedly he thinks I should do conventional or at the very least wait until I feel I've gotten very good at conventional before then maybe working in sumo. And not ever stopping conventional.

But, tbh I'm not sure the reasons behind it. I think he just greatly prefers conventional, probably has some bias against sumo being an "inferior" lift of some sort. However, I obviously value his opinion enough to continue conventional. Also, he can coach me on conventional but I assume if I do sumo, I'm completely on my own. I do have a worry that I cannot figure it out by myself. It sucks, but I simply do not have confidence given my lifting history at getting good at lifts by myself. It's pretty sad given the amount of effort, study, and focus I've put forth. I'm used to being good to extremely good at things I put my mind to. Because lifting doesn't come super easy to me, I think I feel worse at it than I probably even am. Every part of lifting seems like an uphill struggle for me to some degree. No part of it seems effortless or that I'm good at, except general compliance, and I do seem to enjoy it/studying it. And the H&F community, .

I think I've seen that video ~3 times so it must get linked frequently .

I guess I don't really agree that from what is said sumo is necessarily bad for me. Tbh it seems weird you seem so convinced it would be bad for me without me actually trying it. The ratio of my limbs is set in stone. I've seen multiple resources suggest I'm built for sumo. Not borderline but clearly.

Now, is my potential lack of hip strength and knee cave something that might mean sumo is not for me? Maybe? But if sumo is a better mechanical situation for my body then it seems likely doing it a bunch would potentially solve such weak points or issues. The simple fact that it's likely a more favorable mechanical situation suggests to me it would be better and cause less stress on my long-term.

You say that but I'm not sure why or how it's true or even that it is. Even if whatever you mean by that statement is true across everyone as a whole, I'm not everyone, I am built differently. Additionally, it seems there is at least one clear benefit to sumo:

- Less stress on lower back. This is inherent in the lift to begin with but is even moreso for me given that even in an optimal conventional setup, my back is barely at any angle at all. Given what you know about how bad low back issues are, I'd imagine you would see long-term value in this.

I don't agree with that statement and I don't think you would believe it if you gave more thought to the difference between sumo and conventional.

Think about why some people can move more weight at it than conventional. I think there is a misconception that they are "cheating" the movement somehow to get more weight out of it. But if it were that, everyone would sumo more weight. Which obviously isn't true. In fact, don't most of the heaviest DLers not sumo? Those individuals are obviously built well for DLing in general to some degree. Plus they then have found a specific technique/setup along the conventional lines to get the most out of it. Guys pulling sumo probably do it b/c they aren't built as well for DLing to begin with and that's why sumo allows them to get more out of the lift.

My wingspan is ~1 inch shorter than my height, iirc, but I haven't made the specific calculations in that article. I did compare my torso to arm and torso to lower body via this method over a year ago:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post181075901

My torso to arm ratio is .94 (under .82 -> conventional, over .82 -> sumo)
My torso to lower body ratio is .64 (under .55 -> conventional, over .55 -> sumo)

While my arms are noticeably short, I do think they would likely come in at under 38% of my height. My torso for sure would come in at over 47% of my height I'd guess. It looks noticeably long (not weirdly, but you can tell), putting me in the short arms and long torso, sumo camp.

We can talk about this more tomorrow.

I read this yesterday. Some of it is stuff you might have heard me say before, but its a good article from a different source than I have quoted or linked before: http://www.t-nation.com/training/hea...und-deadlifter

Btw, will squatting at your place work for tomorrow? I am thinking of just doing mobility stuff and maybe some core/bro/accessory stuff today since I won't be benching this weekend.

yeah you can squat. I will be benching.

I don't disagree with that logic at all and I will check out the video some point today. I guess I tend to base things around my personal experience. More than half a year ago I hurt my left hip flexor after doing 5 sets of leg press. I went as deep as possible and clearly I couldn't handle it. This is why I squat light but for deadlifts when I do sumo I do not feel any pain whatsoever and I weigh 162 lbs and did 335x2 yesterday. My point is that it's clear that my hips lack flexibility and are a weak area for me but sumo doesn't make it feel worse even when going heavy.

That's fine, but I suggest learning about how to fix your hip issue.

Yes that is a huge problem and I am foam rolling. I also bought voodoo bands but I feel like I shouldn't use them yet because I don't think I'm flexible enough. Essentially, I am only foam rolling and doing hip flexor stretches that are Kelly Starrett approved. Only doing them twice a week when I do legs but I know I need to do it everyday and not be so lazy.

BS on the bold part. Using them would help expediate what you're trying to accomplish. Just go with whatever ROM you can do with them. Use them when you do your hip flexor stretches too.

That's interesting. Thanks, I'll start doing that.

6/5 log

Spent ~1hr mowing the lawn.

6/6 log

Went for a walk around the lake outside. Beautiful.

6/7 log

SMR and mobility on my shoulder. Tried to set it into the back of the socket better. I do think part of the cause for injury was it being too forward in the shoulder socket and then a bad unassisted unracking.

biceps and triceps stuff

6/8 log

LBBS at Cha's. Dadude didn't show up, :/.

270x3x3

Cha may post videos. I had a wider stance and toes out more on the first two sets. Signficiant knee cave. Narrowed it for the last set and while there was still knee cave, it was at least better.

Safety bar box squats bar+70lbsx2x6 /w 2 second pauses at bottom
GHR bwx10x6 /w short pause at top
Reverse Hyper 90x10x3

---------------------------------------------------------------
New Programming. I'm especially eager to hear what Weasel, Rudikulous, Cha, and Mr. Golden have to say about this programming. Also KC and DF2, but I kind of assume they will both hate it for different reasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------

I plan to run an inverted Juggernaut Method for Squat, Bench, and Close Grip Bench Press. This is a 16 week program.

Modifications:
- After week 1 (to sync heavy DLing with TJM deload week) I plan to run Magnussen/Ortmeyer DL program. This is a 12 week program.

- I plan to lift at Cha's for every DL session when possible.

- On the intensification week for bench and CGBP waves I plan to work up to a heavy set before prescribed programming. I plan to skip this for squats.

- My accessory programming will look like this (to start at least):

Squat day:
Wide stance box squats (6+ sets of 2-3 reps at a light weight /w 2 second pause)
Pullthroughs (6 sets of 15+ reps at a light weight)
RKC planks (5 sets of 3 reps of 10s hold/5s rest)

Bench
Pendlay rows (following TJM program scaling as-if they were weighted dips)
Chins (10 sets of 5 reps)
Facepulls (4 sets of 15 reps)
Rippetoe Tricep Extensions (5 sets of 10 reps)

DL:
Wide stance box squats (6+ sets of 2-3 reps at a light weight /w 2 second pause)
GHR (6 sets of 10 reps)
Reverse Hyper (3 sets of 12 reps)

CGBP:
Chins (following TJM program scaling for weighted chins)
Standing calbe pulls (5 sets of 10 reps at light weight)
Facepulls (4 sets of 15 reps)
Barbell curls (5 sets of 10 reps)

- I have nothing else built-in to this right now (no jumping, throwing, cardio, etc.). However, I normally do 2 days of "cardio" when not lifting each week. Should I just do nothing those days, continue to do LISS but make sure it's very easy? Just do SMR?

Going to need loco's input, but Im giving it a provisional 32 out of a possible 37 fancy play points.

Or, you know, I could just run TJM for DL too, lol. Although I have a feeling after week 2 Cha will talk me into running Mag/Ort anyway. It seems that the programming for whatever lift I train with him suspiciously ends up resembling his own programming. I felt I should just try to preempt it this time, .