Dear Health and Fitness,

2p2er johnbeans and I have been in discussions about a prop bet to help him gain weight (muscle obv.) and me lose weight (fat hopefully).

Neither of us are sure about what kind of goals are realistic to strive for.

I'm a little under 5'8" and will probably weight ~200lbs. when we start the bet and he's a little over 5'8" and will be around 140lbs.

We both live in Vegas but will be going to our hometowns for a couple weeks for the holidays and we'll both be returning and starting the bet the first week of January.

The way we're structuring the bet is in two three month parts. We'll adjust for the gain:loss ratio on the turn and then go another three.

My final goal by either the end of the bet or after is to get to 175. He doesn't really have an idea of what a realistic gain goal should be, so we're enlisting H&F's help. We need help for what realistic goals should be and also some sort of idea of what kind of ratio we should be looking at as far as pounds he gains and pounds I lose to keep it fair.

Once we start we'll be recording progress here as a good way to try and keep us accountable.

Thanks!

Love Maximum Rocknroll and johnbeans

Bulking from 140 to 175 sounds much harder than cutting from 200 to 175. I think like 165 is probably a more fair line

Right. We weren't trying to have the same target weight. We were just looking for a suggestion as to what he should be shooting for.

Thanks for the 165.

how physically active are either of you? obv your friend has a bean pole frame but what is your frame size? these will need to be taken into consideration.

if you are fairly inactive then the weight will drop off of you pretty easily at first. Depeding on your frame size and BF% you could prob realistically lose the first 5-10 lbs. in a month pretty easily by eating right and exercising properly. after the first initial weight loss it will become a little harder to drop weight because your body will adapt to the changes and you may have to take a more detailed approach.

losing weight will be ALOT easier than gaining muscle mass. losing 10lbs of BF can't even be compared to how hard it is to gain 10lbs of LEAN mass. If he is gaining mainly lean mass w/ little gains in BF it could realistically take him 8-12 months to do this w/o the juice. again, if he is eating and exercising properly he will see faster gains in the beginning and as he gets closer to his genetic limit for carring muscle the gains will slow down.

Lol that it might take him a year to gain 10 lbs. w/out juicing. If he's never lifted weights before he should be able to gain 10 lbs of lean mass in the first couple of months.

OP, you should do bodyfat composition testing on him and decide what an acceptable % is. Like if he's 140 and 9% BF, he can be 12% at the end or whatever, since it's impossible not to put on some fat while lifting and bulking. Anyway, I think 160 is a fair goal weight for him.

I've gained 9 pounds in 6 weeks on SS... obviously not all of it is lean muscle and some of it is fat... but if he just starts eating a ton and lifting he should be able to gain fairly quickly at least at first.

If he's looking to keep his bodyfat stable, I gotta think somewhere between 155 and 160 is fair. If he's allowed to gain fat as much fat as he wants, 165-170.

in his OP he clearly says "(muscle obv)." which is why I responded w/ "LEAN mass."

anybody that gains 10 lbs of SOLID muscle in the first two months of lifting is a genetic freak. thats 1.25 lbs of lean muscle a week lol! obv this can be accomplished w/ fat and muscle gains. but this guy is super insulin sensitive if hes 5'8" 140lbs! ectomorphic body types like this are hard gainers. i mean look at a 10 lbs slab of meat. ectomorphs cant just naturally add that to their body in that short of a time span.

That's just not true. Just empirically speaking, I added ten lbs. of muscle in around two months and a whole lot of people show similar results in their logs here and on T-Nation. Obviously two months in on the short end of things, but to suggest that it would take someone who's never lifted before nearly a year to do this is ludicrous.

How do you know it was all muscle?

Several bodyfat % tests over the course of my bulk.

Just to give you guys a little background. I've lifted weights extremely casually for the past 5 years. When I say casually I mean I followed no dieting plan (although I eat pretty healthy anyways), no exercise plan, and would have extended periods of time where I would just stop working out. I think the longest one was like 10 months or so. When I worked out in the past and presently my workouts consist of 5 sets bench presses and 5 curls. Sometimes I do sit ups, but not often. I curl ~55 lbs and bench ~140 lbs. I have no idea what my maxes are. Since I've graduated High School I've bulked up slightly, I used to be way skinnier, but somehow I've only gained 5 lbs. I'm a fairly athletic person. I used to run cross country/track, and played soccer. If there's anything else about my background/lifestyle that will help for the prop bet let me know.

As far as my goals for the bet and what I want to get out of lifting. I mainly lift to stay healthy and keep a focused mind. It also helps me get more out of my day and improves my eating habits. It's very easy to slip into the one big meal a day routine playing poker. I'd like to put on some more upper body mass, but I've never weighed much more or less than 130-140 lbs in my life. I should also note that I don't really want to take any weight gain or protein supplements. I eat a ton of fish, soy, and meat normally, and prefer to get my protein through diet. Thanks for all the replies so far guys.

Have you ever done a Starting Strength type program before? Ever squatted or deadlifted? If the answer is no, I like your chances to get to 160.

Also, why no protein shakes? They make getting the protein and calories you need much easier.

140? How tall are you? Jeez dude it doesn't really matter, you're underweight.

Staying away from supplements is perfectly fine. Just realize it (protein powder) is nothing more than processed food, so if you eat anything from a box and most jars, then you should have no qualms eating protein powder. Whey is a hell of a lot better than soy, stay away from that ****.

Anyways, read the faq, do SS, eat more, and you should gain mostly muscular weight easily. I highly doubt you eat a "ton of fish, soy and meat", if you weigh 140. That's just stupid. You're going to have to work hard to eat a lot. If it's not hard, you probably aren't eating enough.

We're more or less just looking for realistic terms for the bet, not help in accomplishing our goals. That will come later

My background:

I was very in shape in high school. I lifted constantly and swam a decent amount. I ate well, even though my metabolism allowed me quite a bit more leeway back then than it will now (5.5 years removed from graduation).

Since graduating, I've basically given up on myself. I got a hot wife and said to hell with it and I really let myself go. I went through a 6 week period between August and October where I worked out a ton and ate very healthy. Then my wife (she's very athletic and has a tendency to eat very well) left Vegas for a wedding and during that 4 days I gave up.

At 5'7.5", 203, I've got a decent amount of muscle and a good build to work on. I've got a pretty good strategy set up come January (our bet has nothing to do with New Year's Resolutions, it just coincides with our returns from our hometowns) so I'm feeling good about this.

We're looking to structure it as a win/win bet. We're both going to set goals (once we figure out what they should be) and if we each hit them we're rewarding ourselves. If one hits and the other doesn't, the "loser" finances the "winner's" reward. If we both miss, well, that's where we're looking for some suggestions as well. We both have a decent amount of money, but we're not at all looking to make this a monetary thing, just very motivational.

I suggested doing something charitable, but realized that sounded bad "working to avoid doing something nice," so johnbeans said maybe something embarrassing, but it's pretty ****ing hard for me to get embarrassed, so that won't be much of a deterrent for me.

Overall, we're looking for ideas for rewards and "punishments."

Also, now that you guys have some background on us, hopefully we can get some better goals to set. I'm shooting to lose probably 30 pounds in the six months. If that's realistic (is it?) I'm probably going for 18 for the first three months and 12 for the next three. Thoughts?

john also needs some sort of recommendations for a final weight gain goal for the two three months periods and the overall six month period.

Thanks again.

i think you guys should do something like the loser has to be the wingman for the winner and go to a bar and pick up 10 women for the winner (who all must be approved by winner)

or something fun like this

or 20k prop bet

That would work if my maximum rocknroll friend wasn't gay. When are we going out sarging on the strip?

we'll have to see if my wife approves

and we're trying to not make it about money.

we could build on the first idea though

/ my contribution to this thread

pics of the wife required now

Maybe after the bet's conclusion.