Quantifying The Degree of Difference Between Free Weights And Machines - Page 2

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Quantifying The Degree of Difference Between Free Weights And Machines

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05-28-2010 , 06:48 AM

#26

Gutshot22

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyedea

but when random people ask "how much can you lift?" what will you tell them???? what will you tell them????

When random people ask that question about the bench press, they don't know enough about lifting weights for it to matter.

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05-28-2010 , 07:29 AM

#27

skalf

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,458

How about a person who has a knee injury that prevents squatting, how much of the benefit of that exercise can be recreated with machines?
I can use leg machines without knee pain.
If this is too far off topic you will just have to flame/ignore me, but I would like to find a replacement for the miracle lift; everything else can be done with free weights.

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05-28-2010 , 07:44 AM

#28

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

How do you sit down? Life must blow always standing.

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05-28-2010 , 07:52 AM

#29

skalf

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,458

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

How do you sit down? Life must blow always standing.

I’m getting the feeling you are going to be one of these "squats cure cancer" types, but onto the question.
I sit down by using my hands to take off weight on the way down, and push up when I raise.

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05-28-2010 , 07:56 AM

#30

dtemp

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,560

Quote:

Originally Posted by skalf

I’m getting the feeling you are going to be one of these "squats cure cancer" types,

No but it could potentially eliminate, or at the very least alleviate, a lot of your knee problems. Properly performed squats that is. Improperly performed squats will only aggravate existing knee problems and possibly create new problems. Most people have a negative connotation of squats because they have never performed them correctly.

What is your knee injury, anyway?

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05-28-2010 , 08:01 AM

#31

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

Quote:

Originally Posted by skalf

Like a cripple?

I'm not saying squats cure cancer. It is just basically impossible to go through life without actually squatting. So unless you're experiencing pain EVERY SINGLE DAY MULTIPLE TIMES you can squat to some degree painlessly. And if you are experiencing pain, perhaps you should rectify it rather than just suffering needlessly.

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05-28-2010 , 08:15 AM

#32

Gorilla4Sale

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,208

Squats don't cure cancer; however, deadlifts do.

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05-28-2010 , 08:16 AM

#33

skalf

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,458

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtemp

The doctor called it rough cartilage on the inside of the knee cap. She said it could not be treated, but that I can do anything that I can stand.
It comes from training karate as a kid. You are supposed to stop the kick with your muscles, but I did not think about that, and just basically had the knee stop the kick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

I do experience pain every time I bend at the knees, and trying to do a body weight squat, I hear a crackling noise and feel pain.
The problem I see with trying to do squats is I think the knee joint will be the weak link, to the degree that I am not able to put any stress on the muscles.

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05-28-2010 , 08:49 AM

#34

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

So you're trying to train knee extension without training knee extension?

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05-28-2010 , 09:03 AM

#35

KRS ONE

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2,085

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla4Sale

Squats & Deadlifts cure everything.

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05-28-2010 , 09:06 AM

#36

skalf

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,458

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

So you're trying to train knee extension without training knee extension?

Pretty much.
Actually I can use a knee extension machine with a lot less pain than squatting.
Any idea how much I get out of that machine, plus a leg curl machine plus whatever machine could be recommended vs. squatting?

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05-28-2010 , 09:49 AM

#37

Gorilla4Sale

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,208

Sounds to me like your 'injury' isn't going to/can't potentially get any worse, and you can do anything as long as you can stand the pain, right?

If that is the case, then I recommend you squat.

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05-28-2010 , 01:44 PM

#38

anononon

Guest

Posts: n/a

Gorilla.

But yes you should obviously squat.

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05-28-2010 , 02:27 PM

#39

skalf

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,458

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorilla4Sale

Sounds to me like your 'injury' isn't going to/can't potentially get any worse, and you can do anything as long as you can stand the pain, right?

If that is the case, then I recommend you squat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyleb

Gorilla.

But yes you should obviously squat.

That is unfortunately impossible, and the tread is working out like I thought it would.
Thanks anyway.

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05-28-2010 , 02:29 PM

#40

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

I warmed up today. My knees felt creaky. I squatted and pulled. Only one feel creaky now. If I do this again Monday, I'll have 2 perfectly healthy knees.

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05-28-2010 , 02:38 PM

#41

milesdyson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 23,856

my left knee was chronically terrible before SS (if i would walk around a lot in a day, i'd be limping by the end). a little over a year later, it is comparatively great.

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05-28-2010 , 02:46 PM

#42

skalf

banned

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,458

Quote:

Originally Posted by milesdyson

my left knee was chronically terrible before SS (if i would walk around a lot in a day, i'd be limping by the end). a little over a year later, it is comparatively great.

That sounds pretty amazing.
How did you deal with the knee? Were you able to follow the program without modifying it?

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05-28-2010 , 02:55 PM

#43

milesdyson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 23,856

i followed the program basically without modification. it's not like it instantly got better, though. i had a few days where the pain was pretty bad and i had to either take it very light or just not squat. i still get random pain here and there that affects my programming, but i'm squatting a decent amount now. my log is really long but it's all in there.

but i'm not exaggerating about how it was before. amusement parks or hikes were lol bad and now if i ever feel that pain, it's much milder and goes away quickly.

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05-28-2010 , 02:55 PM

#44

potato

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,573

I'll pile on and say that after almost 20 years of knee problems, my knees were essentially off the radar after 3 months of SS.

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05-28-2010 , 03:40 PM

#45

anonn12345

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thremp

Like a cripple?

I'm not saying squats cure cancer. It is just basically impossible to go through life without actually squatting.

Thremp,

I think you are severely underestimating how people with tight hip flexors and severe APT go about their everday lives completely using their quads with no posterior chain involvement at all.

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05-28-2010 , 03:44 PM

#46

anonn12345

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,886

Skalf, just to balance things out a little bit, I never had any knee pain/injury in my entire life until I started trying to squat 8 months ago. Now I have chronic knee tendonitis. But I have long femurs and tight hip flexors, so I put a lot of strain on my knees when I squat.

With your knee issues squats will probably only be good IF you use very good form, otherwise they will probably make them worse.

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05-28-2010 , 03:52 PM

#47

Thremp

banned

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 36,452

Prob, I thought WCGRider was basically disabled, which is a belief I'm sticking to.

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05-28-2010 , 04:10 PM

#48

Maximum Rocknroll

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,458

The only time my left knee doesn't hurt is when I'm lifting.

I can't figure out what's wrong with it though. It basically cracks 90% of the time I bend it (not exaggerating) and it constantly has this dull pain in it. But when I'm squatting/running/swimming...nothing.

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05-28-2010 , 04:34 PM

#49

anononon

Guest

Posts: n/a

To go full circle about the knee discussion, I have calcified bone chips in my right knee from a previous soccer accident. It never fully healed. I started squatting seriously about 18 months ago, and started SS 12 months ago. It is about the same. No real difference.

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05-29-2010 , 06:36 AM

#50

theblackkeys

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by milesdyson

my left knee was chronically terrible before SS (if i would walk around a lot in a day, i'd be limping by the end). a little over a year later, it is comparatively great.

I had the same knee issues as Mr. Can't Squat fairly soon after I started SS but I'm sure that had everything to do with going from sedentary fat ass to squatting 3x a week. Anyways, it went away over time while I was squatting, DL'ing and power cleaning, although I did take one summer off squatting. It's just like anything now, it comes and goes with or without training but I feel much better when I do train.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milesdyson

but i'm not exaggerating about how it was before. amusement parks or hikes were lol bad and now if i ever feel that pain, it's much milder and goes away quickly.

Yeah, hikes were not fun.

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