I also don't think it really needs to be limited to lifting.

If we've got people like rowing Monte, marathoning loco, or biking Rusty who are serious about their progress and logging it, I think that should be qualifying.

IDK about rusty b/c I never followed his log, but loco and monte have both been capable of squatting well beyond 2 plates for fives and probably could even now totally cold.

I imagine people who had just done cycling and were moderately good at it at a recreational level could probably walk into the squat rack and hit 2 plates for fives pretty quick too. Cycling does take quad strength obv.

I've talked a lot of **** about Mark Rippetoe over the years, but one reason SS is so great is because of it's incredibly high compliance/retention relative to other "entry level fitness" protocols. From the perspective of "fitness evangenlism", it's a fantastic protocol. And fitness evangelism is a great thing. I'm really happy when somebody discovers and gets into a fitness lifestyle; it's good for them on so many dimensions and good for society overall when more people are fit and strong. A society full of CNN+fox news+netflix couch potatoes sounds horrible. A society where everyone looks and feels better because they are physically active is gr8.


So the fact that rippetoe advocates filthy unclean LBBSing and maybe has horrible ideas about strength training programming beyond the first year of training are very forgivable sins given just how many people have gotten into gym/fitness lifestyle as a result of starting his well designed beginner program and the progress it results in driving them to continue with fitness as a regular pursuit in their life.

Yeah, I realize that loco and Monte definitely can/could meet the squat threshold. But even if they couldn't I think that such logs add value and are interesting to follow.

The gym where I used to train at was run by people who knew Rippetoe very well and helped with the book, so they were slurping him non-stop. That probably influenced my thinking of him quite a bit, but I basically ended up where you did.

He's kind of like the Sklansky of lifting writers. His ideas just came out at a time when there wasn't that much widely available to the general population, so even though there are many improvements one can make, his stuff was so much better than other available options.

Now there are plenty of people who have taken those ideas and built on them to create better programs, technique cues, etc. And it's very likely that a lot of those people started out themselves with SS.

Just like there are tons of people who can write and coach better than Sklansky now, there are probably lots of people who can write about and coach lifting better than Rip can. But Rippetoe should still get a lot of credit for building something that influenced and inspired a lot of people.

Squat test?
Log test?

I can only assume you guys are in favor of literacy tests and poll taxes.

I can't speak for Evoken, but as far as I'm concerned all are welcome.

I just think it would be nice to have more of those kinds of logs around. One can learn a lot from them.

And I'd much prefer having more of those to more ABPs and MLYLTs. That's not to say that those don't also provide value. They do. But it's more entertainment value and less useful info that one can apply.

More similar to the citizenship test.

Say what you will about ABP but I'm pretty sure he passes whatever "minimum" lifting threshold the forum would advocate for.

Jeff Cavaliere (Athlean-X), who was called out for deadlifting a claimed 495x2 using fake plates, posted a video yesterday where he deadlifted 425 lb for a single.

It looked much harder than the fake lift, and his form was rough, with rounding in the lower and upper back and his shoulders forward of the bar. He wore a belt this time, with an alternate grip (unlike the double overhand he used in the fake one). But, he did get it.

His supporters will say lifting somewhat in the ballpark of the fake lift vindicates him, while his detractors will say it proves his 495x2 was clearly fake and was not even representative of his actual strength (i.e., he can't claim it was just a demo). Cavaliere's throwing down the bar in triumph was a bit cheesy too, as he was rightly called out IMO.

I didn’t fully follow, but did he seriously never address it? Like has he ever claimed it was fake weight or not?

True.

It sounds like it's more of a minimum effort threshold being discussed. I think it's a low bar of simply posting some health and fitness related activity to a log and striving for goals of some sort. Daily running distance goals, rowing goals, etc. are absolutely goals and are no less legit than a lifting goal. A goal of maintaining fitness is still a goal. Hell, a daily calorie goal merely to stop or slow weight gain is a goal.

He just ignored it, while friends like Pure Bullfit, Alan Roberts and that Shredded Science guy put out videos defending him. IMO he should have just come out right away and admitted the obvious. It would have just gone away, as no one watches him because of how much he lifts.

I looked up that fake weights stuff, I hadn't seen it before. Maybe from 2014. I mean guy is only 165 so 425 is still great for mainly a fitness guy. But still somewhat disappointed that he hasn't directly addressed it.

He also got called out by Greg doucette that he is fake Natty. He stepped up to the plate there, offered to pay Greg's expenses and fly him anytime so he can see any test in person. Crickets from doucette.

Verdict on fake plate 495x2 at 165?

Fake

Verdict on nattyness

Natural

Yes, I was mostly disappointed by the fact that he didn't even address the fake plates. I definitely agree that the 495x2 was fake. Watching his 425 single solidified it.

On nattiness, I watched Greg Doucette's video when it came out. 95% of it was on the fake plates and 5% was on nattiness (Greg actually had a prior video where he said they were fake and that he didn't care, but then found out Jeff lied about the amount he lifted and changed his mind). On nattiness, Greg didn't really accuse Jeff of anything. Rather he said it was more likely than not that Jeff was on at least TRT, given that he is dishonest about other things (Greg made an earlier 'natty or not' on Jeff, saying it's more likely he's natty, but part of that was the value of Jeff's word). Oddly, Jeff ignored the elephant in the room, focusing only on the natty part.

Greg made a response video right after Jeff's TRT reply, saying he can't fly in from Canada because of COVID restrictions, that he's not running a drug testing facility, that it's easy to mask TRT usage in the given time frame, and that it isn't even the focus of anything. Jeff never responded to that.

Do I think Jeff has a TRT prescription? As Greg said, it's not impossible. Maybe he maintained his testosterone level into his 40s. But, if someone lined up 100 people of his age and build (assuming there are 100 of them) and I had no other info -- aside from knowing they keep that leanness year-round -- I'd assume over 50 of them were on at least TRT. That would mainly be because there's no way 100 out of 100 men would still have their youthful testosterone. But, I wouldn't assume all 100 were. So, I have no idea on Jeff and don't personally care one way or another. I think TRT is just fine and am not sure if he ever said he doesn't use it.

Is being on TRT natty? There are many opinions, but Greg defined it as not natty (and said he is on TRT and gave his dosage and said he's pro-TRT, FWIW), so I'm just replying with what he said about it.

IDEL, does "2 plates" mean 225lb? I never lifted very seriously or for very long, I think my max was around 170-180. I'm not even a good cyclist any more though.

Cycling takes some strength but most cyclists are not super strong, esp not in the quads. Probably the only really strong guys are sprinters.

Yes, "2 plates" is 225 lb or 100 kg (it's slightly lighter in kilos because they use 20 kg plates and bars).

Two plates would have been trivial for me when I weighed 85 kgs.

Now I weigh 65kgs, it would be hard. I may get it - I got 90 kgs recently, but it would be hard, and I wouldn't get a set of 5.

I am a lot healthier now I'm skinny, so losing the weight was an optimal decision.

Almost all my training is focused on climbing. Squatting a lot is not that important a sub- goal. Improving my pistols would probably translate better on the wall. (I can do sets of a handful of pistols, but I am definitely not good at them.)

So yeah, there are a wide variety of valid goals, and a 2 plate squat feels too narrow.

Glad I’m not the only Greg Doucette viewer

I think you're placing too much emphasis on that part.

I mean if someone can squat 225, it doesn't give them license to just shitpost nonstop.

This is not a shot at ABP, it's a general comment. I think ABPs log is fine based on H&F content alone. It the rest that makes it fantastic. At least for me. I can understand that others may feel differently about that.

I feel like it hasn’t been very entertaining since he began his all caps rants tbh. His lifting journey isn’t really inspiring enough at this point to carry the rest of his crap

Evoken,

If you have such a narrow view of what Health & Fitness is wouldn't it be better to post in a body building forum with all men that squat and take steroids?

He hasn't disagreed with the idea (presented by others in this thread) that people interested in other ways with fitness post.

He obviously has some issue with people who have no interest in any fitness-related stuff parachuting in to post. He'd also seemingly prefer to see more blogs that were more motivational than depressing and mostly off topic.

Also, except for pocket people and olds, 225 lbs is not that much.

To the people hung up on "2 plates"

In no way am I suggesting 'YOU MUST SQUAT 2 PLATES TO POAST HERE!1!!". Rather, strength is a fundamental part of fitness and squatting is a fairly decent measurement of overall strength. Are there other suitable measurements? Naturally. Bench press, pistol squats, various sprints, jumps, plyometrics, and bodyweight exercises like pullups and pushups, are also great measurements of overall strength in their own respective ways. That's just a few, not an inclusive list. Why use 2 plate squats as a metric? A lot of newbies around here... The exercise is very approachable requiring minimal equipment, is not particularly difficult to get started with, and yields results and progress nearly immediately because the exercise recruits such a large amount of muscle mass. So why should we have a first page full of logs squatting 2 plates "or equivalent"? That means people are doing productive stuff to increase their strength, and thus overall fitness, levels. Also we gotta pay homage to the H+F golden era of 2009-17; the forefathers wouldn't have had it any other than than every able bodied person squatting. But even still, if we've got a 150lb guy doing 25 bw pullups but not squatting, he is still clearly working on a fundamental part of his fitness (strength) and has clearly been doing productive things to get there.

MLYLT: Most bodybuilders are not wired in the aspie way former poker players are, and I like the community for aspie former/current poker players rather than meatheads. Most bbing boards do not have an active logs section. They are not really interested in cataloging past training sessions and sharing them for feedback or to vicariously experience the sessions of others or harvest ideas from their experiences. They're interested in long winded debates about XYZ pro's dosages and how much genetics determine one's bodybuilding results. A lot, even some fairly advanced bodybuilders who are much better than me, do not even squat at all because they lack to patience to develop the mobility to do the exercise correctly and are too concerned with looking cool and tough to have to look stupid for a few weeks while they learn how to do it correctly. Or because of previous injury history. Or because of existing high levels of development for stabilizing muscles and a desire to isolate the quads more specifically.

Update on dating; my world is ass soup right now. So much pent up sexual energy (and I don’t even mean me!). Still feels a little weird wearing a mask and asking people about their level of social distancing, otherwise. I don’t even have to pay for dinners anymore.


Is this some other language that just happens to look like English words? What would it look like if he wasn’t coding?


Fitness; I’ve put on considerable weight during the pandemic (more to love) mostly due to the staggering level of drinking and, ahem, “munchies”. Quit my PL gym last month due to spiking cases in Atlanta. THIS TIME I intend to stick to some combo of rowing, swimming, kettlebells and such mainly in an effort to regain something like normal heart and lung function. Fitness!