djk,

Learn English. Stop speaking to idiots.

Ask him if he goes to failure or "really blasts his muscles" when he workouts. You squat 3 times a week, but only for 3 sets of 5. Not very much volume at all, and that is precisely the reason it works.

what? was my post incoherent or are you referring to me saying i'm not sure how to respond to him? if it's the latter it's because I don't really know why all of you recommend starting strength.

We recommend it because it works.

It's really that simple.

djk,

The program you posted is pretty much what I would have written for you 4 years ago. And I thought I knew a lot about training then. I now know that I was quite a chumptard.

As for why it works see the faq of this forum or the SS wiki faq.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...his_program.3F
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...r_than_this.3F

thanks

DJK,

this is not surprising from a football player

Basically, this is a very standard intermediate program for someone geared towards bodybuilding. A novice lifter is going to make more strength and size gains by putting in more volume with more weight on the compound lifts. Whether or not you use starting strength, this is true almost always, even for novices whose goals are aestetic and bodybuilding oriented.

The leg extensions and leg curls are ok for an intermediate bodybuilder but worthless for a novice. A hamstring curl would be OK if you wanted more volume on top of the deadlifting. Basically just squatting (and calves) is all the leg work you need at this point, and even if you want some other assistance work, leg extensions and curls are not good options.

As a novice, you are very inefficient at using your muscles. You will squat and will suck at it and be ready to squat again 2-3 days later. And lose out on gains by not doing so.

Even if you followed a high-rep template, doing each lift once a week is dumb for a beginner. You need to do them twice min. The difference is ENORMOUS.

I'm not a big proponent of the SS method, especially to the degree that Thremp is, but in your case, it's definitely much, much better than the above workout to maximize beginner gains.

Also, if you are even SLIGHTLY geared towards strength, the above workout is not anywhere close to optimal. You need to work with lower reps. Even if you chose to do a workout a year from now similar to the one you posted, which has a little less volume/days than most would recommend, you would want to add in some lower rep work after the main all out set of 8+ reps.

Do a 5x5 program for at least 6 months (many would recommend much longer but I think this is the min, with modifications allowed in the workouts) and then figure out if you want to change it up. There's a good chance you won't.

You are starting to see the light. And don't do calf work. There is a finite amount of time each day and instead of calf raises you could be 1) eating 2) sleeping 3) slaying bitches 4) picking winnars.

In the first video, look how far out in front of you the bar is at setup-- this actually mirrors what you did in your lift.

In the second, the walk through, one consequence of this bar position is that your knees don't rebend under the bar (not something to think about, but something that will happen naturally). Your first pull is bad and your second pull is bad. As a start, the word for that, that comes to mind, "bad."

I think you need to forget about pulling from the floor and break things into pieces.

Do some front squatting to get a feel of the bar properly racked.
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...rontSquats.wmv

Do some swings (shoulder height) to get your hips active and explosive.
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...t_KBSwings.wmv

Now you can begin at the end and work backwards. Do some landing drills (into the power position).
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...CleanDrops.wmv

Then proceed to working from the hang-- just drop into the jumping position and, explode up into a shrug at full extension (with straight arms). Like the first three reps in this video (but with a clean grip).
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/c...er-warm-up.wmv

Then take this to hang clean-- where after the shrug and the barbell is moving upward, get your elbows underneath and stick your landing.
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/c...ower-clean.wmv

When you can do these things (and you can add weight to them). Then worry about starting from the ground. It may sound like a lot, but you might get through all this stuff really quickly and be ready to go forward.

thx for the responses guys. i just talked to my friend and showed him this thread, and he is in agreement now.

one more question: if im going to be starting the original SS and I'm not ready to do Power cleans at this point, what should I be substituting on Day B instead? Deadlift again?

Standard is to do pendlay rows (youtube/google it)... but man, they are they gheyst lift ever. Just start learning the powercleans.

edit: There is also a "novice" program on the SS wiki.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...Novice_Program:

There are some variations in the wiki linked to in the FAQ. In "Practical Programming", Rip's novice program has you doing chinups/pullups instead of cleans.

Shwatt: Try drinking more water during your workout.

Jeff: Agreed on dont train calves. Are you training them to look good (largely genetics for calves imo) or to jump higher (its not gonna help with that...not a noticable amount anyways)

DJK: Even professional athletes often dont know much about training...advice of elite coaches >>>> advice of elite athletes (or in this case probably intermediate athlete)

Thremp: A callous file is like 2 bux and takes like 20seconds to file your callouses down. Of course I have one and still use it like once a month so maybe Im a hypocrit.

-Mike

Why are pendlays the gaheyest lift ever?

-Mike

Cause the position is just about the exact same (Minus a foot stool or chair for one leg) as you would want to hit it from the back. Lumbar extension and everything.

I didn't get that until I read it a few times. I guess I don't think about gayness enough.

pendlay row>standard barbell row for upper back?

Well... there is that too I guesss...

It's probably just because I suck/sucked at them (and/or don't understand their purpose properly), but I just find/found the range of motion weird. Possibly a flexiblilty thing? but whatever, it's really just an awkward position.

I also think they are very easy to cheat at (not getting bar high enough etc) and not really realise you are doing it.

Power cleans are way more fun.

Pull-ups are way more fun (and better for prop bets obv).

what about pullups/chinups? those are subsituted into the practical programming novice one.

I agree that cleans would be better if you can learn them properly. IMO pullups cant be subbed for a rowing movement...I did this for awhile and now I think my deadlift has suffered a bit for it. I think alternating back and forth between rows and pullups is a good idea.

Thremp: sometimes i really miss the obvious explanation. ill be avoiding doing rows in front of any suspect looking males from now on.

Jeff: Pendlay row is better because you deload each rep and have to explode off the ground from a standstill each time. This builds power and is prolly why its a better substitute for the power clean. I dont think regular bent rows are bad (or chest supported rows) but I think pendlay rows are better.

-Mike

i still laugh every time i hear them called "pendlay" rows. because ive been doing them for years as have lots of other people

i think rippetoe said the same thing before too

I need to change my routine around, I hate life.

I've been on the same gay BB routine for the past 2 months waiting for my back to heal up (minus the leg work)

It's been pretty boring but I try to keep myself motivated to go and surprisingly have no missed a day.

The pain is clearing up nicely and I'm lookin forward to goin back to a 5x5 routine soon.

I was thinking of going to 5x5.

I've missed two days in 4ish months, both deadlifts F THAT.

If you guys want, I can set up some routines for you using the Weider Principles.

I would love that. Please optimize mine for inner bicep peak.