playing soccer good = not in need of novice progression program?

Neither on both, but Im pretty positive my Bench/Squat/DL numbers are the highest on this sub-forum. If not, cool, it was a simple presumption. Im, not sure what you consider an "elite powerlifter", I dont do comps, but my numbers are pretty good.

Dont be a morAN, you can be both.

what are your numbers SHOT?

Whatever numbers he posts, we probably have to subtract 100-150.

Nah...In the past ive been pretty honest with what I can do. I have nothing really to hide and I gain nothing from lieing. Ive gained a ton of weight since my last thread so the ratios wont be as impressive.

5'10.5" 237lbs ~8%bodyfat -holding some water because Ive cut out dieretics and my food intake as more sodium. The increase in food has def helped my strength since my last thread.

Bench-475 (no shirt)
Squat-580ish (no suit)
DL-600ish (no suit)

The point is that you think these surgeries and your sport of choice makes you special and that you need to train around them. But they don't, and soccer is not so special that you need specific programming - perhaps especially because you will be nothing more than a mid-level rec player your whole life.

You remind me of any number of idiots who join 2+2 and say they don't want to pay attention to Sklansky's works and basic poker theories because they don't want to play "someone else's game." Like them, you think that the basic tenets change because you have suffered a few bumps along the road. And like them, you are wrong.

You don't post your numbers, your weight, your form, any videos, any evidence at all to suggest you are getting stronger. You don't ask for help at all, you don't go into detail what you are doing, and you offer nothing but baseless arguments. You do not want us to know what you are doing because at your very core, you know that you are weak and pathetic and that nothing you are doing is even remotely optimal. Why Smiley and tsearcher let you continue your idiotic diatribe is beyond me, as at best all you do is pollute this forum with your braindead monologues while at worst someone may actually believe what you say and do stupid **** rather than follow simple and optimal programming.

You've just been drafted to go argue with the anarcho-capitalists in the Politics forum. This is a great honor and an awesome responsibility not to be taken lightly. So googogogogogo!

To be quite honest, I don't really see the point of juiced "athletes" offering advice to natural athletes while trying to use their own experience as proxy for actual knowledge. Its like trying to give advice on optimal strategy in Monopoly when everyone else can only draw housing repair cards and you get an income tax rebate.

I know Louis Simmons is a premier strength coach and everything but I kinda wonder if the above is why he apparently "doesn't believe in periodization".

@Thremp: What is broscience?
@kyleb: Why do you assume my brother is not a special snowflake? If I was to take as unbiased a look at possible I would say he is. Some people can be special snowflakes.
@Bruiser: My brother told me I should buy Eric Cressey's book Maximum Strength during this "chat". They are friends. What do people here think of it?

"him: If it is his logic, then it is flawed. It definitely covers a lot of the body, and it makes sense from a high school coach or fitness enthusiast who thinks that "tired=good" or a stupid fitness pro (there are a lot) who read that guys like me or Mike Boyle or Eric Cressey love heavy back squats (we don't all the time, by the way) and also deadlifts, so they do them on the same day.

What it forgets is the sensitivity of the nervous system to loading and repeated loading.
3:45 PM
The limited window for your body to be able to successfully process and use lots of carbohydrates and protein.

That's a hormonal impact of exercise.
3:47 PM
It's sort of a "more is better" rationale. "


I think his main point was that if I want to get "big" I need to do more reps w/ less weight. What I read today in Maximum Strength is that 6-10 reps are the best for adding size. What do people here think about that? The SS workout I was doing was mostly 5 reps or 3 reps. Also, he seemed to be bothered by doing all those full-body exercises in one workout. I think he thought it was a road to injury. What does he mean that my CNS can't handle it? Is that the equivalent to saying I'll be too sore the next time I workout?

Simmons has a massive agenda and is now doing Gheyfit for the mobnies. I'm sure he'll be pleased about doing DLs with PVC pipes.

The amount of beginners he's trained is probably absurdly low as well. Same for the amount of natural lifters. I think Westside was discussed before. Its not a bad thing at all.

And, I'm definitely not an advanced athlete. I haven't worked out consistently since high school and it has been 4 years. I would say I am a hard gainer, but I can get pretty strong. In high school it seemed like I got fairly big (a lot more than I am now) by being consistent for four months. If I had kept going, I bet I could have gotten a lot bigger, obviously.

So, I would say I'm out of shape. And my main goal is to 1) get big and 2) feel good and 3) get strong so this working out is actually doing something useful. But I would put appearance before strongness, I think. That's because as long as I'm working out and in shape I feel pretty okay. So I'll feel strong even if I'm not as strong as possible.

Does he understand that the world is not a clear division of reps? When you break the barrier from 5 to 6 reps, there is not some huge change in the amount of hypertrophy you get from each respective group. Not to mention the lower reps is good for getting strong, which is a nice side effect.

I think he doesn't understand how people train complex motor skills wrt injury. Oly lifters train a more complex movement, more often. This is not a "road to injury".

He doesn't understand CNS issues. Ask him to rejoin his comments about CNS adaptations with beginners and overstimulation. If the CNS is rapidly recovering and adapting to the new stress (You get stronger), how are you developing residual neurological fatigue? Hint: You're not.

Broscience is basically a mishmash of buzzwords, a loose understanding of what is really going on, and a lot of "Bro". Ask him to explain dual factor theory to you. If he is unable, he isn't fit to differentiate programming between novices, intermediates, advanced trainees. /endgame

raino-

It seems like your brother doesn't believe that SS actually works on its own terms. Like he seems to think it is impossible to recover workout-to-workout.

If he thinks this he is simply wrong, and dozens of SS logs on the internet will confirm this. He may have a serious gap in his understanding of novice strength coaching. Maybe Cressey has this too, I dunno.


So getting that out of the way, the only possible argument is that SS works as stated, but some other program works better.

I would ask your brother to sketch out specifically what gains he expects you to see in squat/DL/bench/press over what period of time.

I'm guessing the projected gains on SS will simply be a lot larger.


Of course there's probably a theoretically optimal program for you that is close to SS but makes slight Cressey-style tweaks based on particular physiology issues you might have, or is maybe slightly tailored to conflicting goals you have like not wanting to get too fat or whatever.

But that doesn't seem to be where he's going at all. He assumes SS-style novice programming simply can't work, and he is dead wrong.

This is my basic feeling as well. Though I don't think that adding in a bunch of unilateral training that will inhibit strength gains for the sake of some unidentifiable goal such as "mobility" really adds much. There have to be ways to develop stability/flexibility/mobility while not actively harming your core goals (Get big/Get strong)

i'd argue 1000s of SS logs. There's SS sub-forums and/or logs at places like bb.com, tmuscle boards, ss.com, davedraper.com, etc etc. It's immensely popular

Maximum Strength is good but a waste of time for a newb. It's 16 weeks of periodization and lots of assistance work. A newb is better off pounding the main lifts. Taking your squat from 145 -> 215 in 16 weeks is pretty pathetic if you're a newb, whereas if I take mine from 360 -> 405 it'd be pretty sweet.

It's a program I'm considering once my linear progression is exhausted. It's got benefits to an intermediate who also would like to lose some fat. We have a log on here from <3 tha grind so you can ask him.

Honestly Thremp, I agree.

I was never trying to say that I know better than anyone. I was mearly pointing out that its my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that SS isnt the most perfect system ever and contains flaws. SS is religion to the forum so I was attacked for that opinion.

Well then why don't you tuck away your e-peen and go back to posting random nonsense about how you like to shave your ass and flex it to throngs of screaming male fans.

If it is your opinion that SS contains flaws then you must know of a better approach than the people in this forum who recommend SS as is. Exactly what flaws do you have in mind?

Why must the SS haters always create the strawman that SS supporters think that SS is the "most perfect, optimal, meant for 100% of people" program?

The SS supporters generally just think that it is the best novice strength program available in an easy-to-understand, highly accessible format. Good luck disagreeing with that.

Because actual criticisms like the placement of Oly movements, the pressing post squatting, and a lack of horizontal pulling movement are too reasonable and actually exist.

you are an embarrasment to humanity. the reason i don't post specifics is the exact opposite reason; because i am so happy with my training that i don't want to lower myself by sharing it with you and thus tainting and corrupting myself.

BRUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISER

from reading roacd's posts, i think his bro is trying to say that there is a limit to how much your CNS can advance strengthwise in a day, and that someone is better off shocking himself with just one compound lift in a day (because of diminishing marginal returns).

i have no knowlege or opinion on the matter (i've heard the counter that beginners have a greater capacity for advancement, beginners aren't capable of stressing themselves as much etc) but i think you should address what he's actually saying instead of what you want to prove wrong.