Checking out Twilight thanks for the rec, Rustly.

Nobody's Fool... it's an OK movie, but it covers like 1/10th of the book. I guess the same is true with Empire falls although they hit most of the high points.

My favorite Russou book is Straight Man. I have not liked most of the recent ones too much. Apparently he has a new one called "Everybody's Fool" which I think is mostly told from the point of view of the cop in Nobody's Fool, the one played by Hoffman

Anyone got a sauce for the Renaissance P physique templates?

John Gruden's son even lifts

http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/19/jon-gr...-powerlifting/

Good comparison of roids vs natty, is Deuce Gruden vs Brett Gibbs.

While the realities of natty training are sobering, they can also be beautiful. Brett Gibbs has a higher powerlifting total. They both compete at 83kg but Brett is fatter (and stronger).

The IPF has some drug testing too. Deuce not worried, he has the people passing NFL drug tests on his side.

I have no idea who he or his son is but it came up in my yahoo feed also - https://sports.yahoo.com/jon-grudens...165337198.html

I'm surprised you think that Gibbs (or any top IPF for that matter) is natural.

This is probably dumb but I would bet at least some ipf guys are. I would bet everything I have Mike t is natural. He's not really a top guy anymore but he used to be before he got hurt

More that I was surprised Loco would think that. I'm not sure what I think.

I know a few guys in the steroid community who just say things like "700lb deadlift at <200 body weight = not natural." I come at it from another perspective, that being that these guys are putting everything (time, money, injury risk) they have into being the best at something. They're all gonna be mega-elite lifters, but whoever wins the top spots is statistically too likely to be elite+gear. Especially considering how easy it is to pass these tests.

And it doesn't even really matter how much credit you give these guys. You could have all the virtue in the world and justify using gear on the basis that everyone else in contention for the top spot must also be using.

I will never be impressed by any short limbed powerlifters bench or sq numbers. It could be 455 or 600 at the same BW I still won't give a **** becuase he's a hobbit and the bar is moving like a few inches. And I will continue to be impressed by long limbed lifters dl numbers because I am long limbed.

Short limbed people sub 5'8 are not even real humans. Different species.

Larry wheels, Pete Rubish, Kevin Oak videos:" FAWK YEAH RAW POWERLIFTING IS SO BADASS THESE BROS ARE SO STRONG IMMA LIFT ALL THE WEIGHTS OVER A HUGE ROM AND GET JACK3D"

Brett Gibbs, Candito, Mike T, Yuri Belkin videos: "ehh... maybe I don't hate bodybuilding afterall, I just really hate tren. There must be a way to prep for a bodybuilding show without enduring the horrible side effects of the trenbolone. I gotta order some posing trunks, got my first g4p skype cam sesh next week!"

I also think at least half of NFL players are natty. I also think Usain Bolt is mostly natty, maybe new peptide or androgen receptor modulator whatever.

I don't really look at strength levels, I look more at the physique. I look at my own physique, Candito's physique, athlean-x and from there compute.

Brett Gibbs - natty.

He has the natty softness I am looking for.

A dumb statement from you? Never!

Ya. This is even stupider than your ongoing head fat troll. Yuri Vardanyan was one of the strongest people who ever lived, roided out of his mind, and looked like the dude at the next cubicle down with fat thighs.

You have literally never posted anything useful.

If you're basing PED usage on looks/physique, you haven't been around athletes very much, or even a large sample size of normal gym bros.

OLY is really bad if someone is trying to get jacked. There are way too many factors one must look at to determine nattyornot.

I been following Brett Gibbs for a while and I think he is natty. Just an opinion bro. Obviously it's completely obvious saying eyeball tests not going to be accurate if blood and urine tests are not.

There is a study on natural bodybuilders, maybe you heard about it. That's what almost everybody bases nattyornot analysis. That and androgen receptors on the shoulders cause unnatural growth and it's good enough to get a good idea.

If someone never targets a muscle group with FPSy work its conceivable that they will not stand out unusually.

I'll take some pics tonight at the gym of the some of PL team there.

I suspect you'll call them all natty (cause they have ****ty physiques), and I can guarantee you they are all on a gram+ a week.

Oly lifters, athletes, PLers, etc... it's incredibly difficult to make the call based on physique because of what they do for work. Even many of the chicks it's hard to tell (some, not so much though).

Bodybuilders? Pretty easy to tell.

Yeah I agree with that.

It's not rocket science that working up to a skilled one rep max is not going to get you as jacked and that's what I said in my post to mikhel.

But I also disagree on your thoughts on PED use in the NFL. Take QBs for example. Average bench reps at 225 is like 8 (so about my level). Football velocity not as important as baseball velocity.

These guys are mostly DYELS. Tony Romo has noodle arms. Stafford is skinnyfat. So what exactly would be the benefit of taking steroids? Now before you say Manning, yes he was caught with hand in the growth hormone jar.

All am I saying is, do you think 90% of NFL QBs are sauced up? I say over half natty, it's just not as valuable to get sauced.

Recovery.

You are literally one of the worst and most frequently wrong posters.

Recovery from throwing the ball once a week? Or are you talking about injury?

I think most NFL QBs are natty, in fact I never heard of one of them failing a steroid test.


Now GH is a different animal. Testing on that is just catching up but I am not really talking about that as in sauce/steroids.

Loco,

Even if you're right and some non-trivial percentage of QBs are natural, that is a fraction of under 100 players in a league of around 1900 players or so (if you include the practice squad).

Even given the fact that maybe more kickers and punters than average might not be saucing, I'd be shocked if more than 10% of the league is natural overall. They almost can't be given the explosion in size, speed, and agility in our lifetime.

Both.

You'll never hear of an NFL athlete failing a "steroid" test. They are PED tests. And if you're naive enough to think that nearly every single player isn't on PEDs. k. (Pretty sure some kickers and punters aren't. Maybe a long snapper, but prob is since they likely double up on other special teams roles. Prob backup QB isn't. That seems like a sweet gig.)

You literally just acknowledged that non-physique athletes are virtually impossible to tell apart based on physique, then you attempt to guess whether NFL athletes are on drugs based on Tony Romo being "noodle armed"?

I find it hard to believe you are this mentally inept. Just a **** troll.