ITT we discuss the optimal diet: A Whole Food Plant Based Diet - Page 61

It's like the chicken and the egg. Maybe he doesn't work out because he can't recover or progress. Anyway, if Dr. Gregor can't figure out he's likely low on protein intake, what hope does the average wannabe vegetarian have? No wonder so few can stick with the lifestyle.

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07-19-2021 , 01:18 PM

#1502

Land O Lakes

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Trollhollio. Lol, yeah, he doesn't lift weights because they are too heavy. That seems to be an epidemic among Americans - regardless of protein intake. Chicken/egg, lmao. How big is the grin on your face while you type this bullshit out?

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07-19-2021 , 01:49 PM

#1503

Melkerson

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Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

I'm not sure if you're familiar with RM's body of work, but I fear he was not trolling. I'm not sure if that makes it more or less funny, but it's good for a laugh either way.

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07-19-2021 , 11:40 PM

#1504

Rich Muny

Former PPA President

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28,010

ILP dragged me into this thread some time ago. I kind of enjoy talking to you all about this important matter now, though. You all are defensive.

You know, Melk, vegetarianism (all forms) is no higher than 2%-4% in any Western society, and long-term (at least a decade) or life-long adherence to solely plant-based diets is less than 1%. Yet you act like vegan beliefs are a given at a societal level.

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07-19-2021 , 11:48 PM

#1505

Rich Muny

Former PPA President

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

Lol, yeah, he doesn't lift weights because they are too heavy. That seems to be an epidemic among Americans - regardless of protein intake.

He's iron deficient externally as well as internally.

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Trollhollio.

The thread isn't a log, and participation isn't limited to people who consume a 100% whole plant food based diet. In fact, my posts are far more mainstream than the vegan ones. Merely having a different opinion than the majority of participants in a certain thread (and not even of H&F) does not make someone a troll.

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07-20-2021 , 12:00 AM

#1506

Melkerson

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Originally Posted by Rich Muny

I've got no idea what you're talking about. I definitely don't think that.

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07-20-2021 , 12:04 AM

#1507

Melkerson

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Muny

I'm quite sure you're not trolling. I was trying to explain that to LOL.

You are correct that many of your viewpoints are mainstream. However, being mainstream doesn't make them correct or logical. And when you post stuff that doesn't make sense (as mainstream as it may be), people are going to dunk all over it. That's just how internet shitposting works.

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07-20-2021 , 12:09 AM

#1508

Land O Lakes

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Muny

Yes, your opinions are more mainstream than vegan ones; that is not why I suspect you of trolling - it's how you relate those opinions to others.

For example, you asserted that it's feasible to hypothesize that weak people are weak only because they don't eat enough protein and if they increased their protein intake they'd be inclined to lift weights and become strong.

Enough said...?

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07-20-2021 , 12:30 AM

#1509

Birdman10687

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

I can’t speak to what exactly Rich meant, but Sarcopenia is a pretty serious thing and becomes more serious the older you get. Meanwhile the effect protein has on preventing muscle loss decreases with age meaning protein intake (and more specifically a bolus of a certain level of protein at each meal) becomes even more important as we age in staving off sarcopenia

it is further complicated if you are a vegetarian or vegan since it requires even more plant protein to accomplish the same MPS as a given amount of animal protein

so his point seems valid, I think?

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07-20-2021 , 12:32 AM

#1510

Birdman10687

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like if you are a vegetarian you are immediately at risk for sarcopenia as you age since you are eating lower quality protein than the average diet that consumes protein from diverse sources

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07-20-2021 , 12:35 AM

#1511

Birdman10687

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

For example, you asserted that it's feasible to hypothesize that weak people are weak only because they don't eat enough protein and if they increased their protein intake they'd be inclined to lift weights and become strong.

Enough said...?

this strikes me as a reductionist straw man

both resistance training and intake of healthy protein are components of health as we age

either is good and both are better

and of course there is no binary of “strong” or “weak”

but in general maintaining a muscle mass as you age is something that should be part of any diet and exercise regimen

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07-20-2021 , 12:48 AM

#1512

Land O Lakes

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687

like if you are a vegetarian you are immediately at risk for sarcopenia as you age since you are eating lower quality protein than the average diet that consumes protein from diverse sources

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687

If the point behind these posts was, "Heh, if you think Rich was trolling, hold my beer...," then good job.

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07-20-2021 , 01:11 AM

#1513

Birdman10687

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

If the point behind these posts was, "Heh, if you think Rich was trolling, hold my beer...," then good job.

I’m guessing this is your way of disagreeing with someone?

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07-20-2021 , 01:49 AM

#1514

Rich Muny

Former PPA President

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

Greger is unnaturally lacking in lean mass. Just living a normal life should yield much more muscle mass. I think this shows his diet to be suboptimal, so I said so.

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07-20-2021 , 01:55 AM

#1515

Rich Muny

Former PPA President

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

If the point behind these posts was, "Heh, if you think Rich was trolling, hold my beer...," then good job.

I’m guessing this is your way of disagreeing with someone?

Alright everyone. Let's knock off calling posters trolls. It's preferable to reply to the merits of posts than to personally attack people.

If you see an instance you feel is actual trolling, hit that report icon to the left and let us mods handle it. Thanks.

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07-20-2021 , 09:44 AM

#1516

Land O Lakes

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687

I’m guessing this is your way of disagreeing with someone?

Only in rare instances, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Muny

Greger is unnaturally lacking in lean mass. Just living a normal life should yield much more muscle mass. I think this shows his diet to be suboptimal, so I said so.

Why would you assume it's his diet rather than him not living a normal life? Are you really asserting that there are no meat-eaters "unnaturally" lacking in lean mass? Have you not seen potato chip eating fat vegans who need to box squat 200 lbs just to get off the toilet?

Calories are kind of important. It's the first thing people look at when they want to cut or bulk.

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07-22-2021 , 09:07 AM

#1517

Bohemianwrapsody

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A question for vegans and non vegans…

Which is more important to your physical health working out or eating healthy and by what ratio?

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07-22-2021 , 01:38 PM

#1518

Birdman10687

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody

A question for vegans and non vegans…

Which is more important to your physical health working out or eating healthy and by what ratio?

you would have to establish the control group of what “not working out” and “not having a good diet” was to answer this question

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07-22-2021 , 01:58 PM

#1519

Bohemianwrapsody

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

you would have to establish the control group of what “not working out” and “not having a good diet” was to answer this question

That’s a fair point. Probably impossible to find given so many variables.

My point is more that being active and working out in my own experience trumps what I eat.

So then by that logic I might as well eat ethically.

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07-22-2021 , 03:32 PM

#1520

Land O Lakes

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Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody

My point is more that being active and working out in my own experience trumps what I eat.

So then by that logic I might as well eat ethically.

Lmao. The problem with that is Rich feels he's eating ethically, as well, so you're back to square one.

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07-22-2021 , 03:44 PM

#1521

bwslim69

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bohemianwrapsody

That’s a fair point. Probably impossible to find given so many variables.

My point is more that being active and working out in my own experience trumps what I eat.

So then by that logic I might as well eat ethically.

I think most of the literature indicates reality is the opposite for most of the population. I mean sure we could all go full ham every day for a while and burn 5k cals but that isn't sustainable.

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07-22-2021 , 03:56 PM

#1522

Land O Lakes

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Originally Posted by bwslim69

I think most of the literature indicates reality is the opposite for most of the population. I mean sure we could all go full ham every day for a while and burn 5k cals but that isn't sustainable.

I don't think by "exercise trumps diet" that he was talking from a caloric standpoint. Even he probably realizes that one can eat a 1000 calories of ice cream in a much shorter and easier time than it takes to exercise off a 1000 calories. Then again, he has said lots of whacked stuff, so maybe.

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07-22-2021 , 04:58 PM

#1523

Bohemianwrapsody

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Land O Lakes

Lmao. The problem with that is Rich feels he's eating ethically, as well, so you're back to square one.

You’re right.. but same thing goes for the healthy talk as we have seen w the cholesterol and saturated fat exchanges.

Lucky for rich and anyone who’s not a vegan your ethics can evolve.

But ya as far as optimal diet the science is the science. But for some reason we can’t all agree on what the science says.

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07-22-2021 , 05:01 PM

#1524

Bohemianwrapsody

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bwslim69

I think most of the literature indicates reality is the opposite for most of the population. I mean sure we could all go full ham every day for a while and burn 5k cals but that isn't sustainable.

I’ve heard lebron eats 5k+ calories per day.. stack of pancakes w maple syrup and a ton of eggs for breakfast every day

but unless you have his worth ethic I would say that’s flirting w fire