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*** H&F Form Check Thread *** *** H&F Form Check Thread ***

04-02-2011 , 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11111
I'm definitely not an expert at cleans, so I can't offer a whole lot of advice, but work on your rack position. You want the bar resting on your deltoids, with your elbows pushed forward and high (i.e., your triceps should be parallel to the floor, or close to it), and your hands only stabilizing (but not holding) the weight. It looks like you are supporting the weight largely/entirely with your hands.

A lot of (most?) people have trouble with the rack position at first, myself included, and it very well may be a flexibility issue with you. But that's good news, because you can easily improve your flexibility enough to have a good rack position. Click on the "Flexibility" tab at this link for some stretches.

Edit: And the first video on the "Clean" tab in that link explains the proper rack position.
Yeah, I realize my rack sucks, and you're right - it's a flexibility issue for me (as with the bottom position on my squats) - so that link is really helpful. Thanks!!!
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04-02-2011 , 02:11 PM
Squats: knees aren't out far enough...shove em out keep em out

Press: elbows need to be more in front of the bar and try and get your head under the bar as soon as it passes your face

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgnatiusJR
Look solid, some small knee cave though...might wanna fix that.
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04-02-2011 , 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself
dont do that thing right before you pull where you dip rise. set up, arms straight,, back set, etc. then pull.
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04-02-2011 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
dont do that thing right before you pull where you dip rise. set up, arms straight,, back set, etc. then pull.
wow I didn't even notice i was doing that, thanks.
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04-03-2011 , 01:02 PM
Squeeze the bar off the floor. Push your legs using the heels through the floor to start after locking your back in the correct position.
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04-03-2011 , 09:02 PM
High-bar squats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuFjRvIdP3I

I think these are generally OK, although I'd like to get a little deeper.

Hang PCs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwSZ5s67Oio

These probably suck, but I don't know enough about cleans to identify why.
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04-04-2011 , 07:06 PM
ya you can def get deeper on those hbs. are your legs wide enough and feet pointing outward? they look kinda awkward.

i would change your grip too. your wrists are cocked quite a bit. i hold it so that my wrists are pretty straight and the bar is supported by my forearm.

for cleans i would work on getting the rack proper to start. theres obv a lot to fix, but thats where i would start. seems you are catching it with your hands and supported by your elbows. the meaty part of your shoulders should be bearing the brunt of the bar and that will allow your elbows to fully rotate horizontal. your hands are for guidance.
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04-04-2011 , 07:35 PM
In week 2 of getting back to SS after having a back injury derail me for a few months. Took some squat vids and was surprised to see my left side collapsing? on reps. I have felt this in the past, but I think maybe I have just gotten used to it and didn't notice this happening any more. DO you think this is a flexibility issue? I felt like I fixed it in the final set, but my stupid camera didn't record.

45 degree angle

Rear view. You can see my body shift left very clearly here.
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04-04-2011 , 10:44 PM
xpost from my log:

hang clean 205
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04-04-2011 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
ya you can def get deeper on those hbs. are your legs wide enough and feet pointing outward? they look kinda awkward.

i would change your grip too. your wrists are cocked quite a bit. i hold it so that my wrists are pretty straight and the bar is supported by my forearm.

for cleans i would work on getting the rack proper to start. theres obv a lot to fix, but thats where i would start. seems you are catching it with your hands and supported by your elbows. the meaty part of your shoulders should be bearing the brunt of the bar and that will allow your elbows to fully rotate horizontal. your hands are for guidance.
Thanks for the input. Re: the cleans, I have been focusing on improving my rack position and, believe it or not, I have improved quite a bit from where I started, although I agree that I still need to work on it. I think flexibility is an issue, but I'm stretching and it seems to be helping.
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04-05-2011 , 07:51 AM
Latest work-out:
Pussy-weight squats
Pussy-weight bench presses
Pussy-weight bench dead lifts

Not really pushing myself on weight as trying to get the form right, I know I have poor form right now so am greatly appreciative of any help and advice! Love this thread, so much good advice.

Thanks.
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04-05-2011 , 09:04 AM
Geronomo,

iirc, the last vid you posted one of your big issues was that your ankles were rolling in on your squats... can't really see from that vid if your knees/ankles are stable.

Bar is still too high.

You are losing lumbar extension at the bottom. Can you see this when you watch your vids? See as you drop below 90 degrees your lower back starts to round? Get keep it flat (or slightly arched). Get it in that position when you unrack. Tighten your upper back, abs, lower back. Squeeze everything and keep it that way throughout the lift.

I can see you are trying to get your hip drive on, but to get any real benefit from hip drive, you have to get the bar in the right position. i.e. lower. and once you do get the bar lower, you will have to concentrate more on beginning the movement by pushing your hips back. i.e. sit back first, then bend at the knees.

Can't *see* much wrong with your dead at that angle, but I've got a feeling you have the same issue with a rounded lower back at the start of the pull. Remember that the bottom position of your squat and dead will probably be fairly similar.

Also, this pic might help explain the impact the bar position has on your squat. Notice how the high bar position (what you are doing) tends to make the torso much more vertical? Well, when you don't really get any benefit from hip drive in this position. It will tend to just bring your shoulders forward (like what happens in the last couple of reps of your posted set).

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04-05-2011 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In Black
In week 2 of getting back to SS after having a back injury derail me for a few months. Took some squat vids and was surprised to see my left side collapsing? on reps. I have felt this in the past, but I think maybe I have just gotten used to it and didn't notice this happening any more. DO you think this is a flexibility issue? I felt like I fixed it in the final set, but my stupid camera didn't record.

45 degree angle

Rear view. You can see my body shift left very clearly here.
Noticed some buttwink at the bottom, so you are not maintaining lumbar extension, also your decent is quick, are you maintaining glute/ham tightness on the entire way down?
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04-05-2011 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbBeer
your decent is quick, are you maintaining glute/ham tightness on the entire way down?
Are you supposed to do this? Because I don't think I do....
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04-05-2011 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ook
xpost from my log:

hang clean 205
The pull isn't too bad. Maybe a little bar from your body and a little too much with your arms.

Really work on the catch though. Are you flexible enough to rack properly and familiar with a proper rack? You should not be catching the bar on your wrists like you are, you will injure them that way.
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04-05-2011 , 05:11 PM
What are the main hbbs cues?
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04-05-2011 , 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfSlant
Are you supposed to do this? Because I don't think I do....
Maintain glute/ham tension? To my understanding yes... This will help the stretch reflex at the bottom, some people are able to maintain tension and dive bottom the squat, others need a more controlled decent.
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04-05-2011 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtemp
What are the main hbbs cues?
well, obv bar is higher up. grip is different, put your thumb around the bar and your arms support the bar a bit more.

usually, stance is more narrow and feet less angled but that depends.

still shove knees out. still keep back tight. still drive with the hips. still keep weight over the midfoot or heel.

focusing on keeping the chest up should proly be more of a priority.

i think its a more intuitive movement and if you set up right, it will come together easily enough.
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04-05-2011 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
i think its a more intuitive movement and if you set up right, it will come together easily enough.
That's what I've noticed so far. Low bar just had too many moving parts for me and high bar already seems a lot more natural. I've been watching Dan John's stuff as well. I'll get some video up soon. Thank you.
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04-05-2011 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
well, obv bar is higher up. grip is different, put your thumb around the bar and your arms support the bar a bit more.

usually, stance is more narrow and feet less angled but that depends.

still shove knees out. still keep back tight. still drive with the hips. still keep weight over the midfoot or heel.

focusing on keeping the chest up should proly be more of a priority.

i think its a more intuitive movement and if you set up right, it will come together easily enough.
most important imo. dtemp, Dan John is a great resource and if you're reading his stuff and watching his vids you're on the right track.
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04-05-2011 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by downtown
The pull isn't too bad. Maybe a little bar from your body and a little too much with your arms.

Really work on the catch though. Are you flexible enough to rack properly and familiar with a proper rack? You should not be catching the bar on your wrists like you are, you will injure them that way.
Awesome, thanks for the advice. I actually can and normally do rack the bar correctly. I just have a very weird and now painful tendency to grab the bar if I'm scared of the weight. This was my first shot at 205 and I predictably ****ed up. I'm impressed you could tell from that angle.
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04-05-2011 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbBeer
Noticed some buttwink at the bottom, so you are not maintaining lumbar extension, also your decent is quick, are you maintaining glute/ham tightness on the entire way down?
This is probably something I need to work on. I attributed my buttwink to lack of flexibility, but have not made it a priority to keep strong and control the descent. I sometimes feel like I go too slowly and have noticed from others videos that get praise as perfect form that they seem to descent more quickly than I feel I do naturally.

I'll work on keeping my stomach and glutes tighter the whole way down without relaxing at the bottom. I'll update after my next session. Thanks.
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