k.... sooo, I have a problem getting past the initial conversation with girls.

I am a really social guy, relatively good looking, smart, and funny. I am sure of this... However, every time that I meet a new girl that I'm into, I can never get past the initial infatuation. I am really good at reading people and I know when girls are into me, but I don't feel confident in my 'end game' so to speak. I see these same girls lose interest as soon as I try to get things past talking/kidding around with them.

In order to make this question as simple as possible, how should I move past the initial faze? I've even have girls laugh at every stupid joke I make, give me their numbers, and talk about meeting up later, but then I rarely seem to seal the deal... Its like I get caught up in thinking about the **** too much and the girl looses interest once I pursue something further than getting her interested in me.


btw, I'm drunk right now, and posting cause this **** happened far too many times tonight, and I want some honest feedback.... I'm pretty sure the last sentence in the last paragraph sums up my situation pretty well... help plz!

on a side note, I got 3 numbers tonight; as well as a facebook comment from a girl who wants to meet up this weekend... I don't want to screw this kind of situation up again.

Are you saying you have trouble getting things to a sexual level?

How much do you touch girls while you talk to them?

How comfortable are you with your sexuality?

widf

Describe what you do now. Assuming your initial read is correct (which is a big assumption) then it is less a question of what you should do and more a question of what you need to not do. There has to be something you are doing that is freaking girls out as girls who are already interested give you a lot of leeway.

It would also be helpful if you explained what you mean by interest since you conclude with getting three numbers and a facebook which gives me the impression you might think talking to a girl for a few minutes and getting her number is a sign of interest.

Henry, I might actually be more experienced than you in the they-are-interested-but-I-screw-things-up-anyway department than you are.

When a girl is attracted to a guy, and he doesn't take any initiative and doesn't show any sexual interest (in other words, he just keeps a normal, friendly conversation going, without getting closer and more intimate as things progress), she will lose interest in him pretty quickly. I know this because it happened to me many times. I also know that it was real interest and attraction from their part, because once I got over my fear of just 'escalating' like a normal person, making out with girls became quite easy, while it never happened before.

It's really quite easy to sabotage your own success with women as a guy.

I think part of the discrepancy comes from whether people naturally do the right thing or the wrong thing.

You are overthinking this too much. You haven't even met her yet.

I think my situation is like Donkbluffer explained it, but I'll try to put my situation into an example to shed some light on it.

A couple weeks ago I met a girl at a house party. We hit it off instantly, and while we were talking she had her hand on my thigh for a lot of the conversation... I wasn't about to pull anything at that moment cause we were right in the middle of a bunch of other people, and I don't like making out with a girl when there are people around... Anyway, I get her number and end up walking her home. Once we get there, we end up hanging out in the kitchen with her housemate (who I already know)... At this point the girl was sitting on the counter in a way that made it impossible for me to make any physical contact whatsoever and after a few minutes I said I was gonna go too bed... gave them both a hug and took off. Its this kind of thing that happens to me all the time.

FWIW, this is the girl that sent me a message on fb saying we should hangout this weekend... And I feel like Im gonna screw it up. I haven't responded yet, but I don't know how to... FB is a horrible medium for things like this, and I know from past experiences that this is the part i usually screw up.

To give a more general example, when I meet a girl who i'm flirting with and I can see it being reciprocated I don't know what to do next... Im very comfortable talking to girls for the most part, and I do a lot of touching during the conversation, but its the step to making out that I have trouble with... I never know how to start this properly. Do u just man up and go for it or wait for a moment of silence when u are looking at each other?

I think I get friend zoned quickly because I don't show interest past a conversational level... Its like I almost try to hide my interest from the girl and that obv doesn't work out so well

If you get stuck in a situation like that in the kitchen then move elsewhere, make them go sit in the living room or, better, her bedroom instead.

Arrange a date like you would with one of your mates. (if that was a problem at all?)

Next time you are thinking, 'should I kiss her or not, you probably should.' You sound generally self-aware enough to get whats going on, too much if anything but don't worry about that. It is hard for me to describe what the difference would be between a creepy and non-creepy way of going for a kiss, however if there has been flirting and some escalation of general physical contact then it shouldn't be a problem. Is it just going for the first kiss thats a problem for you?

I think because people seem to spend a lot of time at other people's houses the dynamics are different. Making out is something that generally happens when you've left the venue to go back to your place and by then the implication is pretty much that you are going to have sex. I would escalate though physical contact and maybe even a kiss but making out would be odd in public.

Sometimes going for a kiss is super easy and natural, when you've been talking for a while and are obviously into eachother, and you're standing very close, looking into eachother's eyes. Then it just happens naturally. But if you are anxious about going for the first kiss, you're just going to have to man up. Because situations like that don't FEEL easy and natural for you yet. You might even AVOID them, because you feel uncomfortable in them, or even back away if the girl gets too close because you feel uneasy about it. Or maybe it's just me that was so bad at girls.

It's important to know that girls WANT you to make out with them. As long as she's into you, she will think it's normal and natural when you keep escalating. She will think it's weird when you don't!
Girls want men as badly as you want girls, and girls want sex as badly as you want sex. It's completely natural for you to be sexually attracted to a girl and to take things to the next level. She really wants you to! She probably feels bad when you don't.

That's why I asked if you feel comfortable with your sexuality. Some of the best advice I ever got was this:
Accept your sexuality, embrace it, and display it.

Also, you've described some situations in which it was 'impossible' to make any physical contact. But that's just bull****. You know that there have been plenty of opportunities in which you could make 'physical' contact. Don't focus on the few instances in which you were powerless, because then you're not being honest with yourself. Furthermore, you are never a victim of the situation, you never are powerless. You can always take control of things. In that instance it would have been very easy to just say 'Hey, let's go sit here.'

i see what ur saying... I guess I just felt weird cause it was in her house. When we were in the kitchen I wasn't sure that she wanted me there... Didn't want to invade their privacy so I bounced

That specific instance is not important. I was talking about your overall attitude. Hope some of it helps.

In my experience it is the somewhat the opposite. It definitely depends a lot on the culture, the girl, and her social perceptions. In a lot of South American countries making out in public is entirely standard. Bars, coffee shops, and parks are all potential venues for necking marathons. At college parties in the states it isn't exactly taboo either, though taking her somewhere more private is ideal and probably reduces the chances that she resists due to fear of being heckled by her friends.

Don't blame facebook or anything else for your blunders related to epic passiveness. You seem to be super cynical and unconfident about your chances even when things are clearly going well. You should definitely work on your confidence issues and ideally at the source. If her hand is on your leg she is clearly interested and you are hardly putting your balls on the chopping block.

You are desperately looking for excuses to not move in because you are afraid of getting rejected. It's not weird at all that you were in her house and she clearly wanted you there otherwise she would have stopped you at the door. Her house is probably the most comfortable of all possible environments. You probably could have easily gotten her to show you to her room if you hadn't been looking for excuses to run away like a frightened schoolgirl.

I get that I'm too passive... fixing this is going to be the tough part. I guess Ill just try to man up and start being a little more aggro...

On a side note, I'm probably going over to that girls house tonight. Apparently my housemates got invited by her housemates to come over to a party. Its probably nothing big... more like a hangout with 15ish people and booze.

This is obv ideal for me at this point, but I also know she is feeling sick (headache/runny nose etc)... If I screw up the first attempt, It'll feel a little awkward after... should I wait for a better opportunity when she's not sick, or does it not make a difference?

I know i'm being such a pussy about all of this, but I know i need to change some ****, so I figure I'll ask it all here

This is easy. You say "ok, bar xyz, 8pm, let's go!"

widf,

You are obv making excuses to not get in there, and you need to stop. "Couldn't **** her, she was sitting funny on the couch?"

Its ok too be nervous. Its not ok to let it keep you down. You don't have to be super smooth, if you try to act all player like my guess is it will come across akward based on your posts.

I've been unsure in many spots before, I've found honesty never hurt. If you are unsure of signals, a "Im thinking of kissing you right now" sure as hell gets a reaction that clears things up. Its super dorky, but much better than fleeing the scene.

last night was crazy... I really feel like its because of this thread that the night turned out the way it did. Thanks for the advice. Sorry if this is tl;dr

I got over to the girls house, and was hitting it off really well with her within minutes. Over the course of the night, every time we talked there was this sketchy dude glaring at us... He would often come up and forcefully bump into me and start whispering crap to the girl... Literally right in front of me... One of the times I was even cornered by him, and couldn't sneak out and join the party... I ended up waiting for a full minute (which felt a hell of a lot longer) before he left. [In retrospect I probably should have said something to escape the awkward situation, but w/e the night turned out well in the end either way]

It turns out this guy is a recent x bf from a long term relationship... I pretty much already got this vibe, but her housemates kept saying that the guy's a tool and not to worry about him.

Anyway, towards the end of the night I'm playing beer pong with the girl and dominating (again, always with the sketcher's glare from somewhere in the background)... After we won our 3 game in a row, this guy grabs a partner and gets ready to play us... The girl I'm with gives me the "oh ****" look, but i'm just laughing this all off. After about 4 shots, the guys starts yelling 'elbows' at me. (for those of u who don't know bp, u have to have ur elbow behind the table before u shoot). I look at him and I'm like, "my elbows are good dude, u can come check if u want"... I did this with a smerk on my face obv, and this set the f*ker off... He rants something about "f*king my girl, etc etc etc", and charges at me. I said, "are u serious dude" (again still with a smile/smerk on my face, as he shoves me into the TV/couch and tries to provoke me into a fight. I'm just like laughing at him and told him to chill out and that I'm not about to fight him... I don't even know him lol... at this point the people in the house bring him to the backyard and have a long conversation while I keep playing pong...

He never leaves though, and repeatedly comes in and stands awkwardly glaring at me. the girl frequently goes and talks to him which was really starting to piss me off... He's like hiding down in her room waiting for her to go to bed... (f*king 'x' right?)... The girl kept saying she didn't feel comfortable going downstairs, so I told her she could come back with me if she wanted... she instantly refused, and at this point I figured I wasn't going to get anywhere that night... About a half hour later I tell her its probably better if I take off, and I say goodbye to everyone and head out the door...

Once I'm back, I drunkenly opened 2p2 to write a post about the epic fail, and to ask advice about how I should have played it.. While I'm about half way through the post, the girl calls me up crying and says that she wants to come sleep over here if the offer still stands. I tell her of course, and I leave to go meet her and bring her back here... (at this point I couldn't tell if it was a good thing or not because she's crying and got all this baggage, but whatever)

Once we get back, she gets several phone calls from her housemates, and then a phonecall from the x... she spends like 15 minutes on the phone on MY f*king bed with this dude... all I can here is him calling her a sloot and saying, "i can't believe ur going to fack that guy!, etc, etc u bitch, etc etc"... she keeps repeating, "no, i'm not, its not like that I'm just sitting here about to go to bed, etc"... Again I'm thinking OMFG! this is so ******ed.

After she hangs up we talk for a bit, turn off the lights and get ready to go to bed. I've pretty much given up prospects of sleeping with her because of all the drama that led up to her coming over... However, I'm not about to let her sleep there without at least making out I roll her over, start kissing her and shes really into it. At this point I stop thinking about her baggage, and I'm just really glad I had condoms in my room.


Cliffs:

- met up with girl I was talking about in previous posts
- her jealous x tries to fight me during a game of bp
- I give up about an hour later and head home
- girl calls me and I leave to meet up with her and bring her back to my place
- giggity giggity

The EX pretty much set that up for you.

I have no problem with that ... I feel like it would have been fine without him there at all tho. I doubt she would have come back here, but I wasn't about to leave her place unless there was good reason to

so you ****ed her or what? i mean you spelled it out but i'm always so suspicious now after the whole karak biz.

I don't know the karak story... but to put it bluntly, yeah we did.

lol at henry trying to attribute the positive result to the ex. the fact that the ex was there made the situation more of a scene --> more people are going to find out if she hooks up ---> she is less likely to hook up since people will know.

of course she's mad at the ex and will possibly get a "rebound," but the guy sounds like so much of a douche/weirdo that she's probably over him/was the one who dumped him in the first place.

to widf, congrats. well-played imo.

Had the EX not been there he likely had a shot but after that night he likely had a shot in the future but it wasn't going to happen that night. She was just going to go to bed after a drama filled night. The Ex though freaked on her which is why she left her own home to get away from him.

well that is specific and makes more sense. your original post, short as it was (and more readily misinterpreted), basically devalued any accomplishment made by the OP. i just find it funny because this is a guy who has already expressed underachievement with girls and it kinda looked like you were subtly reinforcing that. well, not kinda.