I just mean you are a little naive irt women, and dont understand the nature of the beast just yet.

Why not ask her to a party? holloween is friday right? Dont ask her out, ask her if she has plans and if she doesnt, ask her to a party, if she does (like she is already hitting up teh bars/parties), ask her if she wants to meet up at some point if she gets bored/the party is lame (and than you can drunkenly txt message her)

K, only got one response so I'll post the backstory

A friend of mine recently got an internship in downtown Chicago. It's perfect for him cause he's from a suburb in Chicago. I met him in Columbus OH when we both went to Ohio State. He's been begging me to come visit him in Chicago since I haven't seen him in a while. (I go to school in Cincinnati now). Anyway, I've been wanting to go cause I'm only applying to jobs in Chicago/NYC/LA.

So we go to a bar, and were sitting at the bar. Now, I'm not naive and stupid, I know bartenders work for tips and so obv they are going to be esp nice to guys in order to get better tips. This was in downtown Chicago however and this bar was ****ing packed. She was making it a point to talk to me and it was even more weird because it was me, my friend, and another girl sitting at the bar. She kept asking me questions about what I do, where I go to school, what I take in school, why I'm in the city, what I've been doing in the city etc etc. The entire time she is doing this there are people at the bar trying to order drinks. This was pretty obvious. I'm obv still skeptical cause its a very attractive bartender in Chicago, she knows I don't live there, she knows I'm still in school etc. However, my friend who is also successful with women is like you better be getting her number man she is really into you. We again talk about the whole bartender tip thing and he is still convinced she is into me. Then, she comes up to me and says "by the way, whats your name?" I tell her, she tells me hers, and we continue making small talk. She asks me what I'm doing tomorrow (sunday) I tell her my friend has to work and I have nothing to do so she tells me she works tomorrow and I should come up to the bar. We already had plans to go to another bar, she says it was nice meeting me, and she hopes to see me tomorrow. I'm not familiar with approaching the bartender so I'm not sure if the amount of $$ i spent and tipped is important at this point, but I'll continue with the story.

Next night we go back to the bar she works at it and there is maybe 4 people in the bar. Good chance to talk with her. I tell her I plan on trying to move to the city so that she knows I may be coming back, and we make other small talk. In my past endeavors with girls by this point between the two nights I feel like she would mention if she had a boyfriend. Most girls make it a point in some way to let it be known that they have a boyfriend. Some of you may argue that she would be stupid to let it be known because she is the bartender, but we are not drinking heavy, we tell her we are leaving to go to another bar, and she even comps us two shots of patron. These things lead me to believe she would mention a boyfriend. At this point, again my friend is like dude she is into you and you are a super pussy if you don't ask her for her number. An important part I cannot forget to leave out is that she tells me she forgets my name (but remembers everything about me). This could be a sign shes not into me, but it could also mean she wasnt expecting to ever see me again and/or just the fact that the bar was extremely crowded and we were there pretty early.

We proceed to get our tabs, my friend pays and acts like he has a phone call, so I say "hey, soo could I get your number in case I'm ever back in the city I would like to hang out with you" --- she tells me she doesnt like giving out her number, but she'll give me her email address so I can facebook her. At first I was kinda pissed, but I obv spent the rest of the weekend thinking about what exactly this means. She could of just given me a fake number, or lied and said she had a boyfriend, or even just said something like "no, sorry I don't give out my number" and all would of been cool.

So she obv doesnt want me calling/texting her but I can still send her a message on facebook if I'm ever back in the city, and maybe could even ask her for her number. She elected giving me her first and last name over giving me some fake number or making up some excuse not to give it to me. Theres some value in that no?

I already checked the email address and it checks out. But I guess my question is is should I even facebook her? Does she want me to contact her? At the very least I guess its a shot to shoot her a message if I go back to the city and the worst that can happen is she ignores it.

This is really not a big deal just an interesting happening regarding a bartender in Chicago-- she knows she probably won't see me again so it wont have to be awkward if she doesnt give me her number.

I haven't friended her yet, gonna wait a little, but it will be interesting to see if she is in a relationship or even has it posted.

burko, christ you're way overthinking this. add her, take a look, forget about her and send her a message when you're back in chicago. wouldn't invite her out on a date though, she doesn't seem that interested. more like yo i'm back, might drop by your bar, see ya later.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/67.../#post14087647

of particular interest is towars the end (about post 70) when david slaknjsky posts

Burko,

I didn't even read that. But I can guess that you have student syndrome and are probably making some weird excuse due to some lame personal issue.

Bruiser,

He's spot on. Its obv. Confidence is deal breaker/maker.

pretty much this.

also, while you were in chicago - why not see if she wanted to meet you somewhere after she got off work? tell her im going to be at xyz, you should stop by after you get off work...

getting her number when you dont live there and are there for only a few days seems really dumb to me.

I think its stupid too... the situation with the different cities wasn't what I was asking about however. I'm obviously going to go on living my life in my city and still persueing girls here (I'm actually kind of dating one).

My post was more or less just to get peoples opinions on the facebook/phone number issue and what it might possibly mean.

I'm gonna add her, take a look, and message her when/if i return to the city. I really hate trying to explain myself to an internet community but I'm seriously not thinking about this as much as my post might indicate.


edit: also- didnt ask her to meet us out because she said her bar closes at 4am which is what time the rest of them close up so...

This times infinity.

OK guys another update/I need some help. So over the last week, as i said, the girl I mentioned in previous posts and I have been talking on the phone/text almost daily. We talked last wednesday night til about 3 am, got alot off our chest. Alot more of the same with her saying that she wants more of me and her getting to know each other one on one as opposed to in a group and partying all the time, that she still really likes me, just still unsure. Anyway, last thursday she invites me to group dinner that I originally wasnt going to, until I got the personal invite that she would like me to come. So I go there and she sits next to me, flirt, almost like everything is back to normal. After a few glasses of wine, we go back to my car and kiss again, she says she loves kissing me, really happy the way things are going, etc. So I finally just say "look, you know where I stand, I'm not going to put pressure on you and you say you need time, but you have to understand saying you wanting to get to know me on a more personal/emotional level but still needing time to decide is confusing as hell. I'm not saying there is a timeline, I just want to make sure this is you taking time for the best interest of us and not just you being 'I want to see what being single is like, and if i dont like it i will come back to him situations."

She responded that she meant everything she said, its nothing like that, its just that she just got closure over the 4 year ex and wants "5 seconds" to just make sure she is doing the right thing and is 100% invested. She also said it would be good that I would be going to Detroit the upcoming weekend (this past weekend for timeline purposes), and she would be going to NYC for halloween to visit her girlfriends, as it would give her some more time to think. Confused, i said ok, there were 10 seconds of awkward silence, then she leaned in and kissed me, and went on her way.

Fast forward to this monday, after no conversation for the weekend (I was at a bachelor party/wedding), I texted her to see if she wanted to go to dinner at some point this week (she had previously said she wanted to during our Thursday convo). Here is the conversation:

After I asked her to dinner:

Her: "well i was actually thinking about dinner this week and trying to figure out when it would happen because its already almost 4 today and i havent even gotten a chance to look at emails...it just so happens that this is a ridiculously busy week and i might also have to be out mon and tues next week - im super stressing out"

Me: a joke about already planning sick days..... then something like "im free every night but thursday, so just lemme know"

Her: "well i may or may not have this training monday and tues next week, today i have a ton still to do and its already 4, tuesday night im going to dinner with a recruit, wed night im doing the same thing, thursday i have to pack for new york, and im working all of my hours this week mon-thur so i dont have to take vacation day....and i just found out i get to go to buenos aires one week!!"

me: "buenos aires will be fun. so no go this week?"

her: "im thinking this week might not work out seeing as im still at work and havent done anything yet"

5 minutes pass without me responding....

her: "i dont think i have ever gotten less things done in one day and also on a day that i had to do at least 10 big things....crap"

me: "well what the hell have you been doing all day, and that sucks, i guess ill just eat benjys solo"

her: "ive been in a ton of meetings all day, and are you really gonna go by yourself?"

me: "i mean ill probably get takeout, i wasnt being literal"

her: "i mean i didnt think you were going to dine by yourself"

me: ""maybe some other time"

her: "maybe some other time you will eat by yourself?"

me: "no, maybe sometime in the future i will take you out to dinner"

her: "yes please"


and I ended it. So EDF, whats my move/how do i take this last 2 weeks of work? **** this is irritating the hell out of me, but I feel like its worth it.

Let her go on her trip and meet up with her when she gets back. It's really not a big deal whether or not you get dinner before she leaves, although I understand it would be nice.

This is true, but you should also accept the fact that she likes you substantially less than you like her right now. If she were really, truly, deep-down excited to be with you, she would want to see you before she heads out of town rather than drowning you with the omg-I-am-so-busy stream of consciousness.

I'm not saying that this is a permanent situation, because these things can change, I just think you should adjust your expectations accordingly.

This is true. I'm kind of in this spot myself right now and just want to get some stuff out of the way before I do some more serious dating. I think I've been coming in on the side that likes the other person less lately more as a function of just wanting to wrap up other stuff. I foresee that changing in the future though.

Katt,

Essentially this is the first time ive been dumped/likes the other persron more. I am used to being on the other side...however I have never really gone back. Which is why the fact that she is/still shows she wants to be with me is an encouraging sign. When you say you want to wrap up other stuff, that sounds like her when she said she ran into her ex of 4 years 2 weeks ago and "'finally got closure" from it. How would you say I go about showing that I'm still here but still giving ENOUGH distance to show I am not just sitting here on the sidelines?

The whole "completely drop all contact" worked for the 3 weeks right after the breakup, and i attribute me doing that to why I am in the decent spot that I am now. But during one of our marathon talks, we basically discussed that its not really necessary anymore that its silly for us to not talk, because it was out there that we think about each other every day. Yet, I still feel myself wanting to do that. Shes smart, I am pretty sure she would see it as a game now as opposed to previously when she was genuinely concerned I hated her....

Roulette,

I don't see this ending well for you. I think she likes the attention and affection you give her but doesn't like you nearly enough to want to commit. I can see her having a fling or two on her vacation only to come back and tell you NO MAS in regards to your relationship with her.

highly unlikely ericW... that would be against everything ive known her as a person for the last 4-5 years/how things have been going when we are together. literally just talked to a mutual friend who was at that dinner last thursday that i mentioned. he asked if i was going camping in the group all of us are going, and i said id wait to see how this all shakes out...he said "um, myself and everyone else were under the assumption you 2 were back together based on how you were acting."

Roulette she is still too close to the failed long-term relationship. She most likely likes you a lot, but this is going to keep happening if you push at all for being closer.


In a way you have to stay further away, try to make her always initiate contact. This way she is deciding how things are progressing. Avoid ever talking about taking the relationship to the next level. She wants and craves taking it there, but is very scared to do so. You have to let her come to the decision naturally rather than you pushing it.

These lines are dripping with neediness and depending on how the conversation went down you may have been digging your own grave. If you have had a couple drinks be especially cautious of what you are saying and if something sounds like it could be a line from a WB teen drama don't let it out.

All these nubs are worse than KVH and don't entertain me at all. I'm gonna QQ.

Hey guys, gimmick account here, firstly, I have spent most of the last two days reading through this thread from top to bottom (usually i just read the poker sections on 2p2), some quality stuff here.

My situation:

Im 22, i met a girl in a club 6-7 weeks ago, got her number, over the next 4 weeks or so I went on 3-4 dates with her. We would also contact (usually msgs, occasionaly fbook chat) every 2-3 days. We did sleep together fwiw. She claims to be very busy (which I think for the most part is true) so organising times to get together would often require organising one week in advance. The last time I saw her she explained that she didn't want to sleep together tonight because she felt guilty as I am not the only guy she had been dating. I said that's cool, we were in no ways exclusive.

After having some time to think about the situation and realising that I am interested in her I called her and explained that the idea of becoming exclusive was appealing to me. (perhaps this was a bad move?) Anyway she seemed quite surprised and asked if she could have some time to think?

fast forward one week and via message I suggest getting together, she explains she is busy and it will be difficult. One thing leads to another and I exclaim how it feels like this is one big circle of me making all the effort. The reply she gave me suggested to me she was over the whole thing, to which I replied something along the lines of, 'I guess the situation is pretty obvious now' etc etc, and an effective goodbye. She then called me and said how much that msg hurt her and she wasn't trying to end 'things'. She explained that she has 2-3 more weeks of university then she will have a lot more free time and asked if I could just relax until then. This reaction suggested to me that she was atleast somewhat interested. I agreed.

Since then I have called her once or twice but there hasnt been much dialogue in the last 4-5 days, a long time going on past (our) past experience.

As I write this I realise I havent seen her in 4 weeks. Has this situation run its course? Does the combination of her 'busyness' and unwillingness to agree to exclusivity suggest I should leave it? Should I push the situation or just be patient?

Thanks in advance guys

If I understand correctly, you asked her to be exclusive after 3 or 4 dates? *cringe* When she told you there was another guy it sounds like it was more to establish distance. Asking for exclusivity, while a natural impulse, was the nail in the coffin.

No reason to beat yourself up over it now. Just refrain from being ultra needy in the future. It's not worth the time to vie for a girl that is only marginally interested. You're still young and in need of experience, so date multiple girls and don't ever be the one pressuring for a serious relationship.

LTR,

You epic failed.

1) You're not aloof and confident.
2) You're not even neutral. You're pandering and pathetic.
3) Bitches don't come over and not get ****ed. You need to revise this. Or you need to give a more sincere effort.
4) Who cares if she is banging more than one guy? Hypocrisy is gheymo. Don't ask, don't tell IMO. Actually, recently when I was leaving some girl in a foreign country for 10 weeks without me, I explicitly told her that I wouldn't mind if she dated other guys and we'd see what happens when I got back. Of course I still want to stab her in the face with a soldering iron for the ******ed stuff she does, but she's a woman. And they'll probably be a happy followup to this when I'm in country and can pwn this other noob who tried to **** me... I'm digressing.
5) DO NOT CALL GIRLS OUT EVER.
6) STOP CALLING GIRLS OUT. Sure its fun if you derive some enjoyment out of a bad situation, but you set a bad precedent if you know mutual connections (bitches know bitches and getting a rep for being a "creep" is worse than having herpes).
7) You put in way too much effort. Availability makes you unattractive. Caring too much makes you moreso.
8) Obv the situation has run its course. She was banging lots of dudes, you managed to somehow fool her into thinking your weren't a loser, you found out you were, you affirmed this by being ultra beta and noobing it. Letting the situation go easily and telling them how to contact you (I'll be over there. Call me when you're free. You know where I'm at. Stop by sometime. etc) is way better than your current MO. I got noobed by some girl recently who actually wasn't playing hard to get and genuinely didn't want my weiner (Probably had to do with me fighting away a panic attack while going out to coffee with her... lol life. Not one of my brighter spots). There will be no contact with her initiated by me, if she wants to see me. She'll call.

A+

I would have added no Facebook chatting. Text messaging contact should not exceed 5-6 messages in a session combined both you and her. Your job is not to entertain her when she is bored. If she wants to be entertained she can throw some cloths on and come have a drink somewhere. If she isn't up for that then no problem as luckily lounges and bars come pre-equipped with random girls.

Super cute british girl just popped up on this dating site I frequent and she made reference to being from Liverpool (we both live in Northern California), I sent her this message and afterward thought I did a pretty awful job, whereas I am usually pretty good at these. I think it was too long and rambling and I should have left out the "beautiful"'s, agree/help?

"Hi, I'm XXXX, you showed up on my front page when I signed on tonight and stuck out as being incredibly beautiful. I looked at your page and saw you were English and almost fainted. I am a massive football fan (A United fan, don't hate me!) and I watch Sky Sports News all the time and am in love with the amazing accents. Anyway, I normally really dislike scousers being a United fan and all, but you are incredibly beautiful and stuck out as someone who seemed really cool and fun, so I think I could get over where you're from.

If you would like to chat more I have aim and my username is XXXXXXXX. Looking forward to hearing from you."

yah i know it sucks, pls edit to show me how to do better next time. I just got out of a long relationship and I'm not very good at the intro's anymore I've found :\

RD: dude i think she just needs another "fifteen seconds" or so to bang a few dudes and decide what's what with you JKJK (ok not really, well ok, sorta). Anyway, text when she's back, she's either pumped to hang out w/ you or not, not complicated!

burko: WTF dude. friend her w/ some rando little note. she accepts (or not, that's fine/whatever), send her a facebook message next time you're gonna be in chicago, she's either pumped to hang out w/ you or not, not complicated!

Harold: LOL

diablo, my old friend, hello