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05-03-2011 , 09:48 AM
I can see what you are getting at, but you are still a turn behind in terms of blockers. Made up for by giving your men +1/+1 when you send them over, which hopefully keeps them competitive with the curve. I'll try to give Strider Harness a better chance. I haven't ever really been wrecked by it though.
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05-03-2011 , 11:03 AM
Its more of a niche strategy for small aggressive decks. You really need some equipment to boost your guys up to prevent them from getting stopped cold by random blockers and the strider harness is a solid piece of equipment. Its not going to wreck anyone by itself but its one of the better pieces of equipment that is easy to pick up and crucial to the type of deck that wants to drop lots of fast guys and never stop, a deck that isnt really interested in blocking.
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05-04-2011 , 12:12 PM
So, I've started using a tool on www.MagicDraftSim.com
You can draft a bunch of different sets against bots that will make picks based on the average pick order. The drafts sometimes have interesting results because you don't always get good signals and the bots are drafting a pile of cards instead of a consistent deck. Of course, when real life opponents do this, it makes their decks worse and therefore easier to beat but it can be difficult sometimes to build something consistent in that kind of environment. Anyone want to try running the following draft and see what you come up with?

http://www.MagicDraftSim.com/draft.php?id=34135

I'll post my results below in the image. I think this can be more interesting than reviewing something on raredraft because with this you can see how the changes you are proposing would affect every step of the draft rather than having to base your subsequent picks on what the drafter actually did.

Here is what I built:


Last edited by ferrengi; 05-04-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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05-04-2011 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrengi
The drafts sometimes have interesting results because you don't always get good signals and the bots are drafting a pile of cards instead of a consistent deck.
I think this is a big part of drafting. Getting third pack gifts due to cutting or switching colors late based on a read is a significant skill component.
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05-04-2011 , 12:49 PM
This seems like a bad set for this draft recorder because of the infect mechanic. Either way I think my deck is slightly worse than yours but I like infect a ton more than the reg cards these days :

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05-04-2011 , 01:03 PM
I did the draft anyway just to compare with you.



I cut out the land to make it easier, but I am playing 17: 9 islands, 8 plains. I saw that black was open so I can see how you went into it. I just almost never draft it because of competition from infect drafters for the utility cards. The computer doesn't think that way though, including a joker who opens Tezz and then drafts red. The deck I drafted could definitely 3-0 an 8-4 queue with only average luck. Yours has a stronger removal suite; mine seems more consistent and with better men.

I think three mana Myr and 17 lands is overkill when your curve tops out with one 6cc card and no real mana sinks. I'd cut one of the Silver Myr for a better card if you drafted one.
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05-04-2011 , 01:06 PM
supafrey,

you are very greedy. Playing the heaviest requirements in your shallowest color is very hard on your mana base. Some decks can get away with a mix of infect and non-infect, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. Your deck seems unfocused. I don't know what you left in the side, but I think you could trim black or cut green and add more blue cards if you have them. Taking out the infectors for real men will do you big favours. Although I also first picked the Opal, I wouldn't play it in a deck with only 11 artifacts. I would also definitely play 17 lands in a deck like yours.

Do you draft MTGO often?
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05-04-2011 , 01:07 PM
Since infect cards are so much more prized in terms of the AI's draft picking, aren't you always going to end up with a slightly more powerful deck by picking a solid weenie deck?

Yes I'm usually between 1700-1800 in limited. I got a little unfocused because my brain kept trying to pick apart the AI instead of making a solid deck. I saw the good white cards but I hate playing white because even one other player turns your solid weenie deck in to a mishmash of flyers that can't ever finish a game.

My deck would mostly have blue mana, fwiw. The green cards/mana are purely icing and that's why I only chose the ones that would make decent late game cards/techy stuff I don't really need.
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05-04-2011 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by supafrey
Since infect cards are so much more prized in terms of the AI's draft picking
Based on what?

That site is pretty cool and a nice work in progress. The card ratings are woefully off though. For Besieged no rare is rated lower than any uncommon, Signal Pest has a higher rating than Anatomist and Into the Core among other clearly wrong evaluations. He is data-mining extremely unreliable data, but a lot of his efforts are really cool. His algorithm does try to take into account what colors the bots have been drafting and things like curve considerations.
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05-04-2011 , 02:03 PM
In SOM all infect commons are treated better than most of the regular ones. Lots of cards in the low 100-115 range, just after rares/uncommons.
Excluding stuff like that 5/5 marauder, BSG also seems to only value the infect cards higher than any uncommons.

I laud him for his efforts but it's not too hard to look at that order list and pick out a decent deck in advance. I'mma try one time to rig it and see how it works out.

http://www.MagicDraftSim.com/draft.php?id=34149

Here's the draft for you guys to try your own with what I'm working with.

Last edited by supafrey; 05-04-2011 at 02:08 PM.
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05-04-2011 , 02:13 PM
Oh, OK I guess I didn't really look that closely at the commons.

Have you guys been seeing Jace tumble in the past week? It's already down over 10% from last week and it's lower almost every time I refresh right now.
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05-04-2011 , 02:16 PM
Here's my plan and my deck:

Spoiler:
Okay my plan was to force white weenies, with either a bit of red removal or 1 or two off-colour bombs. Basically flyers/weenies. WU with the 2/1 skimmers also seems clutch.

Here's what I got, after a first pick storm.

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05-04-2011 , 02:47 PM
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05-04-2011 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by supafrey
Here's my plan and my deck:

Spoiler:
Okay my plan was to force white weenies, with either a bit of red removal or 1 or two off-colour bombs. Basically flyers/weenies. WU with the 2/1 skimmers also seems clutch.

Here's what I got, after a first pick storm.

I got almost the same except -wellspring, -skyhunter, -spin engine, -heartstoker, -relic, +gold myr, +divine offering, +turn to slag, + barrage ogre
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05-04-2011 , 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by supafrey
This seems like a bad set for this draft recorder because of the infect mechanic. Either way I think my deck is slightly worse than yours but I like infect a ton more than the reg cards these days :

I don't care for this build too much or for infect for that matter. Both in real life and in the simulator infect appears to be overdrafted.
Regarding the build itself, it looks like you have very few cards that can actually poison your opponent unless you hook them up with that exoskeleton. Mox opal stands a decent chance of being a blank because you have only 11 artifacts. Maindeck wing puncture is not ideal. Blistergrub is only good against black and even if that matchup it won't be so good unless you hook it up with the exoskeleton. Same logic applies to the serum raker.

I'm curious why you ended up with this. It's too bad there is no way to also show the draft pick by pick like you can do with raredraft.
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05-04-2011 , 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ***
I did the draft anyway just to compare with you.



I cut out the land to make it easier, but I am playing 17: 9 islands, 8 plains. I saw that black was open so I can see how you went into it. I just almost never draft it because of competition from infect drafters for the utility cards. The computer doesn't think that way though, including a joker who opens Tezz and then drafts red. The deck I drafted could definitely 3-0 an 8-4 queue with only average luck. Yours has a stronger removal suite; mine seems more consistent and with better men.

I think three mana Myr and 17 lands is overkill when your curve tops out with one 6cc card and no real mana sinks. I'd cut one of the Silver Myr for a better card if you drafted one.
Yeah, I do think your deck is more consistent than mine and it didn't require a splash to make it good. I'm not sure why I didn't go into white instead of black in pack 1. I guess I just saw stronger cards in black so I got pulled in that direction. Black definitely seems to be overdrafted these days. Furthermore, the new set makes black even stronger relative to the other colors so that's something to watch out for.
I do think I could've gone with 16 lands. I had a few decent cards in the sideboard like abuna acolyte, hexplate golem and accorders shield. I guess the acolyte is the best bet even though I'm not exactly trying to splash for it.
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05-04-2011 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by supafrey
In SOM all infect commons are treated better than most of the regular ones. Lots of cards in the low 100-115 range, just after rares/uncommons.
Excluding stuff like that 5/5 marauder, BSG also seems to only value the infect cards higher than any uncommons.

I laud him for his efforts but it's not too hard to look at that order list and pick out a decent deck in advance. I'mma try one time to rig it and see how it works out.

http://www.MagicDraftSim.com/draft.php?id=34149

Here's the draft for you guys to try your own with what I'm working with.
I built RW metalcraft. I would like to have a few more artifacts but hopefully it would work.

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05-04-2011 , 05:48 PM
is there some rule that anytime you pick corrupted conscience you will also get a volition reins? I think it's 6/6 in videos, and 3/3 here lol
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05-04-2011 , 07:08 PM
Yeah forcing white in this simulation thing is key, imo ^_^
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05-04-2011 , 08:27 PM
well when you open CC and then get passed anatomists wtf else is gonna happen? not like there's a blue bomb in scars that people would move in on unless they had all artifacts and peeled a grand architect
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05-05-2011 , 11:23 AM
Hmmm I kind of want to cash out of MTGO. Is selling 40,000 cards reasonably possible, or does no one want to buy 20 copies of behemoth sledge? I'm pretty good at cashing out most of my mythics but I'm fairly certain I have literally hundreds of cards worth 1-3 tickets. Are there any people buying on Stars since the poker collapse?

1700 rares? Geez I'm such a loser.
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05-05-2011 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by supafrey
Hmmm I kind of want to cash out of MTGO. Is selling 40,000 cards reasonably possible, or does no one want to buy 20 copies of behemoth sledge? I'm pretty good at cashing out most of my mythics but I'm fairly certain I have literally hundreds of cards worth 1-3 tickets. Are there any people buying on Stars since the poker collapse?

1700 rares? Geez I'm such a loser.
There are a few humans that specialise in buying collections. I assume some of them are able to pay by Paypal or something. Check the classifieds. You could also of course toss it all to a bot since tix are more liquid than cards. You will get ripped on some cards for sure, but do you really want to spend however long it would take to go through even just the rares to get the best price at each bot? Unless you hate free time it seems like it would be better not to even knowing you are taking a hit.
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05-05-2011 , 12:52 PM
Is your suggestion seriously to keep opening trades with bots until his collection is gone?

www.mtgotraders.com and there are other places like it (cardhoarder i think is one). You send them the csv file of your collection and they give you a quote that's good for a few days.
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05-06-2011 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by da_fume
Is your suggestion seriously to keep opening trades with bots until his collection is gone?
Do you know a better way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by da_fume
www.mtgotraders.com and there are other places like it (cardhoarder i think is one). You send them the csv file of your collection and they give you a quote that's good for a few days.
This is a fine idea, but you still have to open trades.
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05-06-2011 , 03:19 PM
OK, thanks. You're wrong though.
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