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Elemental: War of Magic (Master of Magic redux) Elemental: War of Magic (Master of Magic redux)

08-26-2010 , 05:59 PM
Does it need any expansions to work? TR necessary!
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08-26-2010 , 09:11 PM
I loved MoM. I found this negative review, which actually makes me want to buy the game:

http://www.gameenema.com/2.shtml
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08-26-2010 , 10:03 PM
=/

stopped in town to buy a new staff and some traveler's boots, can equip the staff but not the boots. they don't even appear in the equipment screen but they do appear in my inventory screen and i can sell at a shop. I suppose it is possible there is some sort of prerequisite I am missing but there is nothing to indicate anything of the sort. I also can not unequip any default clothing. don't know how something that basic makes it through testing and into release.
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08-26-2010 , 10:31 PM
That is one of the most positive reviews that is a negative review that I've ever read. I think that makes it sound more credible -- an obviously over the top fanboy still withholding full raving approval.
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08-27-2010 , 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xr8ed
=/

stopped in town to buy a new staff and some traveler's boots, can equip the staff but not the boots. they don't even appear in the equipment screen but they do appear in my inventory screen and i can sell at a shop. I suppose it is possible there is some sort of prerequisite I am missing but there is nothing to indicate anything of the sort. I also can not unequip any default clothing. don't know how something that basic makes it through testing and into release.
I udnerstand how my problem, that was only related to a particular setting on a particular machine ( I guess ) can go unseen, but not beeeing eble to unequip? really?
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08-27-2010 , 08:46 AM
I tried a custom game against 5 other civs, and just sat there doing only techs and nothing else. After something like 400 turns, all other civs except one had died, but not a single soldier had attacked me. I had one single militia unit, yet after the remaining civ declared war, nothing happened.

I also had stockpiled so much gold and resources that I could have bought myself the entire world

After that, my game started lagging like hell, so the tought of attacking didn't even cross my mind. Save - close - bye
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08-27-2010 , 09:08 AM
Maybe the game is making a political statement about the futility of war?

And yet a French game reviewer didn't like it.

Last edited by EvilSteve; 08-27-2010 at 09:19 AM.
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08-27-2010 , 12:56 PM
Jesus the first two sentences were hard to understand.
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08-27-2010 , 01:29 PM
Yeah the google translation is terrible and its not an in-depth review at all, but so far the only one showing up on metacritic. 3/10 translates just fine though.
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08-27-2010 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilSteve
Maybe the game is making a political statement about the futility of war?

And yet a French game reviewer didn't like it.
ZING!
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08-27-2010 , 04:00 PM
so do the units have special abilities/attributes? Like in MoM units had 1st Strike, etc.
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09-03-2010 , 09:56 PM
Finally, the metacritic score is in: 52 baby!

On the other hand, if you're looking for reasons to purchase:

Brad Wardell says "I'm glad that most people seem to like the game... I do believe Elemental is, by far, the best game we've ever made" **

The only review you'll find linked on the game's homepage rates it 9/10. The reviewer did an unboxing video too.

** ok yeah, I'm very selectively quote mining for my own amusement here

Last edited by EvilSteve; 09-03-2010 at 10:07 PM.
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09-03-2010 , 10:14 PM
Actually he has posted a new statement.

"(I'm up north on vacation typing on an extremely slow connection so bear with me)

I don't think people yet fully realize the completeness of Stardock's fail on Elementa's launch.

I'm going to write more about this but not only did we think v1.05 was ready for everyone but we felt v1.0 was too. That's the level of disconnect/poor judgment on our part we're talking about.

If the game had come out in February, it would still have been a disastrous launch because lack of time wasn't the issue. It was blindness, sheer blindness. We felt the game was finished. And I speak of v1.0, not v1.05. Blindness.

There will be massive consequences for Stardock's game studio. I'll be talking more about this when I get back. But the game wasn't released early. The game was released poorly. Head in the sand syndrome imo. I've read the reviews as much as possible given my hideous internet access up here and I agree with them. We just didn't see what they were talking about. We thought any complaints would be about polish points or something.

The point is, the issue here is far far worse than many of you think it is. I wish it was an issue of the game being released too early. That's an easy thing for a company to "fix". Elemental's launch is the result of catastrophic poor judgment on my part.

EVERY competent software developer knows that the programmer must never be the one deciding whether the program is done. Yet, my love of Elemental broke my self discipline and I began coding on the game itself in vast amounts and lost any sense of objectivity on where the game's state was. I normally only program the AI on our games so I can keep a level of distance from the game itself to determine whether it's "Ready". On Elemental, I was in love with the world and the game and lost my impartiality.

We'll do better."
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09-03-2010 , 10:18 PM
I respect him a lot more after reading that.
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09-03-2010 , 10:29 PM
Completely serious question: Does he have a reputation for being emotionally unstable? I'm detecting massive cognitive dissonance from his statements about the game. Which makes me feel a little bad about laughing at this trainwreck (but it's just so fascinating, I can't look away).

Quote:
I'm going to write more about this but not only did we think v1.05 was ready for everyone but we felt v1.0 was too. That's the level of disconnect/poor judgment on our part we're talking about.
What's with the repeated use of "we" here? It seems like he's talking about his own lack of objectivity in the rest of that statement. I mean unless he's surrounded himself with yes men, wouldn't somebody tell him about the problems?

Last edited by EvilSteve; 09-03-2010 at 10:36 PM.
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09-03-2010 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilSteve
What's with the repeated use of "we" here? It seems like he's talking about his own lack of objectivity in the rest of that statement. I mean unless he's surrounded himself with yes men, wouldn't somebody tell him about the problems?
Well, he wasn't the only person working on the game. Let's be honest, someone in that company had to see the flaws, so a "we" is ok in this case imo.
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09-03-2010 , 10:49 PM
The owner and CEO is the guy in charge. "I" is the only appropriate pronoun.
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09-03-2010 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian
"There will be massive consequences for Stardock's game studio. I'll be talking more about this when I get back."

Confirmed: Layoffs Hit Stardock After Elemental's "Disastrous Launch"

"Elemental's revenue was anticipated to provide the revenue both for our main games team's next project as well as a second team," writes Wardell. "Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so we've had to start laying people off."

From the horse's mouth (or Brad's keyboard, whatever):

Quote:
It is true.

Elemental's revenue was anticipated to provide the revenue both for our main games team's next project as well as a second team. Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen so we've had to start laying people off.

No one is being fired. None of these people did anything wrong. Stardock is a small company and each person here is truly amongst the best and brightest. So you can imagine how much it sucks for all of us to lay off anyone. We haven't had to lay anyone off since our migration from the OS/2 market in 1998. It would be great if we can bring as many of these people back over time if the studio can afford it.

No one involved on the core components of Elemental is affected.

Elemental's rocky launch can be summed up (IMO) as follows: Our QA process was insufficient to handle a brand new platform (Elemental = Kumquat 1.0 versus say Galactic Civilizations II was using Pear which was the same engine, modified, from 1997's Entrepreneur) + my own catastrophic poor judgment in not objectively evaluating the core game play components.

Last edited by EvilSteve; 09-03-2010 at 11:58 PM.
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09-04-2010 , 01:39 AM
If you read the rest of Brad's (Frogboy's) posts in that thread, it is actually quite fascinating. I really enjoyed Gal Civ II and I respect Stardock as a different kind of company, so I hope they can turn the game into what they imagined.
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09-04-2010 , 06:38 PM
After developing into quite the arrogant creep, his coming back down closer to earth makes for a really interesting read. We'll see how long it lasts, but if nothing else could convince him, surely money should have the power.
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09-05-2010 , 02:18 PM
I got so bored and remembered how much I liked MoM that I decided to buy this...

The AI is terrible. If the AI had any brains at all this game might be fun, but for now it is like playing against a 2 year old... Next patch is supposed to address the AI so I'll report back then.

It looks like it will be fun once they fix the AI, but who knows. The soap opera that is this game's forum is kind of interesting though.
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09-05-2010 , 05:07 PM
For people who wouldn't mind playing MOM again, it's on GOG now, DRM free for six bucks.
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09-06-2010 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonTamer
I got so bored and remembered how much I liked MoM that I decided to buy this...

The AI is terrible. If the AI had any brains at all this game might be fun, but for now it is like playing against a 2 year old... Next patch is supposed to address the AI so I'll report back then.

It looks like it will be fun once they fix the AI, but who knows. The soap opera that is this game's forum is kind of interesting though.
Speaking of which, things are getting real chippy over there. Brad's (Frogboy's) latest Dev Journal entry:
Fun with the AI

Excerpts...
Quote:
Frogboy

One of my favorite shows on TV is Avatar, the last airbender (not to be confused with the recent movie). One of my long term goals with the AI is to be able to have the AI in tactical battles be able to give the kinds of battles back and forth with players (as well as eventually in MP as well) that I see on that show. Of course, such an AI will take probably years to reach that level but we have the luxury of doing that sort of thing (like with GalCiv before it).
Quote:
Spyndel

Ugh. I wish you wouldn't tell us stuff like that.

Might I suggest while you're modeling tactical combat after a cartoon, you might slip in playing a few *games* that do grid based tac combat well. You sell a couple in your own Impulse store. See how they handle things like combat speed and initiative, movement, counter attacks, target selection strategy, unit roles and tactical variety , which would in turn grant more desperately needed diversity to the unit design process which the game is built around.

With respect, and with apologies for being grumpy, we've had years now of pie in the sky posts about fluffy conceptual goals based on Tolkien or your favorite anime, that have gotten us to where we are currently at. By your own admission during your recent posts, the dev team had become too enamored with that sort of thing during the dev process, at the expense of basic gameplay. We need nitty gritty, down to basics, fundamental redesign of tactical gameplay based on proven mechanisms that work. Not "I want it to be like Dragonball Z...that show is cool!".
Quote:
Istari (Stardock employee)

Then don't read his journals. If you want to bitch about the game, find somewhere to do it. We're done with it here. The team is well aware, painfully aware, of what needs to be done in the near term.

Consider this a warning. Back off. If you can't show a little respect or at least a little restraint when talking to us, then you won't be welcome to participate in the forums.
Quote:
Batlord

I'm sorry but we've seen loads of that kind of posts during the development, i actually enjoyed that tone back then, because well i had faith into stardock. But now as spyndel said, i see it's that kind of spirit that led to the collective blindness that doomed elemental ...

May be it's time that either brad start having a more down to earth approach to game design, or give the game designer role to someone else ... May be having 3 jobs at the same time for extended periods of time is not the best thing to do also .. (afaik, brad is CEO, game designer et AI designer at the same time, how can he handle all those task by himself ?)
Quote:
Istari

He's not handling all the tasks by himself. He's just posting development journals.

We, as a team, are getting collectively sick of every little post since release being dissected and analyzed. The problems with Elemental at launch are exhaustingly well known.

If you don't want to see more developer journals, keep it up.
Quote:
Frogboy

Ok. I'm locking this thread and will back off on making journals for awhile.
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09-07-2010 , 05:40 AM
Hahahaha Epic.

Just to reiterate the steps taken by stardock

"We know how to make games, we don't need feedback - STFU"
"Game is going to be awesome when it is released!"

*Game launch is a total failure*

"We were dumb not to listen to you. We are sorry and we will change our attitude"

*Some days pass*

"We know how to make games, we don't need feedback - STFU"
"Game is going to be awesome in a few patches!"
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09-07-2010 , 11:39 AM
Haha!

Yeah, that's about it. Brad's employees are paid to be sycophantic, but it's still a bummer to see integrity for sale, especially since the kind displayed routinely includes lashing out at and threatening customers. Seriously, the whole company is bonkers when it comes to PR.

And attitudes and orientation in a company always come from the top down. Brad has is responsible for the bubble he's living in, and it has started to affect his customers and lose him a ton of goodwill. A good leader would be first in line to reign in his yes men, not send them forth to intimidate and generally shart on his own customers. Especially after such a crummy launch. LDO in any other industry.
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