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Went for it against a donk lead Went for it against a donk lead

12-13-2019 , 12:47 AM
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BTN ($3.50) [VPIP: 25% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 4]
SB ($9.09) [VPIP: 19.3% | PFR: 9.6% | AGG: 25% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 85]
BB ($10.15) [VPIP: 17.9% | PFR: 13.4% | AGG: 46.2% | 3-Bet: 4% | Hands: 71]
UTG ($10.00) [VPIP: 19.5% | PFR: 16.1% | AGG: 37.8% | 3-Bet: 5.5% | Hands: 1739]
HJ ($22.55) [VPIP: 22.9% | PFR: 0.5% | AGG: 27% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 196]
HERO ($26.52) [VPIP: 25.9% | PFR: 22.2% | AGG: 33.1% | 3-Bet: 11.1% | Hands: 158798]

Dealt to Hero: 9 A

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $0.28, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $0.18

Hero SPR on Flop: [16.18 effective]
Flop ($0.61): Q 9 4
BB Bets $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 9.57), HERO Raises To $1.20 (Rem. Stack: 25.04), BB Calls $0.90 (Rem. Stack: 8.67)

Turn ($3.01): Q 9 4 6
BB Checks, HERO Bets $2.25 (Rem. Stack: 22.79), BB Calls $2.25 (Rem. Stack: 6.42)

River ($7.51): Q 9 4 6 4
BB Checks, HERO Bets $22.79 (allin)
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 01:58 AM
fundamental mistake
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 03:22 AM
I tend to agree. Although I think that fish can lead / call 9x on flop, they will be calling a lot more suited / offsuit Qx vs CO RFI in the blind. It's pretty thin, and you might just value own yourself against qx with the barrel off, folding out their 9x region
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazin lazer
I tend to agree. Although I think that fish can lead / call 9x on flop, they will be calling a lot more suited / offsuit Qx vs CO RFI in the blind. It's pretty thin, and you might just value own yourself against qx with the barrel off, folding out their 9x region
It was a bluff.

Are you guys mostly raising your super strong hands OTF or calling?
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 04:44 AM
oic

facing donk leads, I play pretty straightforward and try to shovel money in with strong hands so that OOP can't change his mind on what he/she perceives to be a bad turn card or something. I haven't really studied many exploitz tho, so I am perhaps not the best person to ask. I do find myself taking pretty absurd value lines with lots of overbetting vs fish, tho. They aren't really worth constructing proper ranges for hahaha.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
fundamental mistake
this
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazin lazer
oic

facing donk leads, I play pretty straightforward and try to shovel money in with strong hands so that OOP can't change his mind on what he/she perceives to be a bad turn card or something. I haven't really studied many exploitz tho, so I am perhaps not the best person to ask. I do find myself taking pretty absurd value lines with lots of overbetting vs fish, tho. They aren't really worth constructing proper ranges for hahaha.
It's a good point. He is a fish for donk leading this board so I shouldn't try to get him off a hand.

I thought this would be the nut best combo to bluff since I block AQ/99/Q9.

Also the Ace is a which blocks even more of his AQ range if we assume he 3bets AQs (4% 3bet range isn't helping my case here though).

Playing all my AQ+ hands would print here so I figured I needed some bluffs. But against fish we don't. My mistake.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 05:12 AM
Villain snap called river and had KQ. How to play awful against fish lesson 1.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 05:35 AM
Flop is call vs fish and non-fish.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:14 AM
you can't defend properly if you raise these kind of hands

2 possibilities

-underdefending

-raising too wide
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
you can't defend properly if you raise these kind of hands

2 possibilities

-underdefending

-raising too wide
So you are calling AA here?
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:30 AM
I fail to see the relevance
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
I fail to see the relevance
Because it is not as simple as look i have pair - i have SDV i always call. Or i always check because i have 2nd pair.

this was evidenced in the T9s hand a few days ago. Everyone said check back IP but betting was the correct play OTF and the higher frequency play OTT was to bet.

I'm asking how you construct your flop raising range. It doesn't matter against this guy because he is a fish and we should just play our hand vs fish and never bluff. But if you are raising AA/KK/AQ sets etc.

You need other hands that are not monsters in that range.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:51 AM
Check how often the solver raise A9

The reason T9s was a bet is because of the 75% otf so your range tighten up and T9s is sufficiently low to bluff T9s is a pure check against a 33% bet . This isn't the case here. You shrink your calling range by raising A9 so the only option to defend enough is to raise more but then you're raising too often.

Also I wouldn't call a gutshot a monster
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
Check how often the solver raise 9Ts

The reason T9s was a bet is because villain bets 75% otf so your raise tighten and T9s is sufficiently low to bluff. This isn't the case here. You shrink your calling range by raising A9 so the only option to defend enough is to raise more but then you're raising too often.
But just because I'm raising A9 doesn't mean I'm raising all 9x. I'm calling every other 9x. I'm also calling QQ here because I block Villain's strongest hands.

I only raised A9 because it checked all the boxes for me.

Block AQ - yes
Block 99 - yes
Block Q9 - yes

There is literally no other hand that does that. That's why A9 was raised. And a hand like J9s would never be raised. Not only does A9 block villain's best best hands but it unblocks all JT/KJ hands as well.

It is not in same category as any other 9x hand.

So if I'm raising 12 combos of A9 here - i can balance it with 24 combos of monster hands.

AA - 6
KK -6
Q9s -2
AQ - 12
99 -3
44 -3
QQ-3

That's 35 right there. So I can call some Q9s and QQ to balance out my raises OTF.

That's why I asked if you had a raising range. But you refused to answer that question.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 08:02 AM
No, 9J, 9T would be a better raise because bdsd

You're really obsessed by blockers

Ofc I have a raising range and AA would be part of it. As for my bluffs, I wouldn't raise less than a gutshot and I wouldn't raising a pair.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
No, 9J, 9T would be a better raise because bdsd
As far as raw equity you are correct. And if this was a tournament and we had to choose an all in hand - we would always choose T9s/J9s over A9o here.

But we are on the flop. And hands like T9s/J9s block hands we want our opponent to have. That's why you don't build pots with them.

You build pots with hands that block the strongest hands and unblock the weakest.

We want our opponent to have JT. We want our opponent to have KJ. Why would you raise with a hand that blocks your opponents weakest range?
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 08:49 AM
I think flop is ok
turn bet too big for the strength of your hand, might be pure x
river spew
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 08:51 AM
F
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
As far as raw equity you are correct. And if this was a tournament and we had to choose an all in hand - we would always choose T9s/J9s over A9o here.

But we are on the flop. And hands like T9s/J9s block hands we want our opponent to have. That's why you don't build pots with them.

You build pots with hands that block the strongest hands and unblock the weakest.

We want our opponent to have JT. We want our opponent to have KJ. Why would you raise with a hand that blocks your opponents weakest range?
equity is more important, x what the solver does
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 01:41 PM
Also we def don't want villain to have jt, he's gonna call
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ojune
equity is more important, x what the solver does
Okay I node locked Villain's Mickey Mouse strategy at 50% sizing.

Here are the hands he donk leads:



Hero's response to this donk lead



1) Definitely not a fundamental mistake to raise A9o here. Villain already made a fundamental mistake by donk leading but me raising is not one.

My combo raises over 80% of the time



The EV of A9o and J9o is exactly the same. So I guess we were both wrong there.

J9s/T9s has higher EV than A9o because of the BDFD but A9s has higher EV than J9s/T9s. So it is pretty much a wash.
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 10:08 PM
what does the solver do on turn and river?
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionutd
what does the solver do on turn and river?
Turn it bets at this frequency:



My exact hand



Notice J9s/T9s almost never bet the turn. (These are all 75% sizing bets)



River action



My exact hand favors betting slightly



Now J9s/T9s are always checked.


Confirmed Spew. Fundamental Mistake. F on the report card
Went for it against a donk lead Quote
12-13-2019 , 10:40 PM
I wonder why it checks almost every single tp but bets A9/K9 ott
thought some weaker combos of tp were enough so v doesn't get to bet rivers too often
Went for it against a donk lead Quote

      
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