then we should fold pre

post a graph on low content thread already

no

his bet on this flop is very strong, he doesn't always do that

i'm more comfortable flatting his 2/3 psb on for example j42ss etc

his bet sizing makes it very obvious we can't continue profitably with our "overpair"

How can you know that?

Huh? We could still play for set-value, amirite? Also we can float oesfds and stack nut-flushes.

well 3/4 on a board that doesn't get so many folds (as you can see people are like LOL DON'T FOLD 66 LOOK WHAT IT DOES TO YOUR RANGE) makes it fairly obvious

im sure a 25nl tard is only cbetting the goods here because its a board that wont get a lot of folds. he'll never just cbet his normal amount because that's just what he does when he's cbetting

even the biggest ******s don't bomb it with air

I think you said it all in the thread title...........

+1

-1

I've seen way more ******ed things than cbetting air on the larger side on boards that won't let you gain a profit by doing so.

we have like 70% vs loltight sb openranges. you have to be really fkn bad on turn and river to not flat flop

Cant fold the flop, easy call. More often than not, villain more than likely missed on the flop and is probably just cbetting becuase he assumed we did the same.
Reraising wasnt a bad move but once he 3bet I would have got the hell outta there

you should worry about what it does to your range, and this is irrelevant of whether anyone else is

if you can't play this hand profitably on turn and river after flatting flop maybe you should stop posting advice and start taking some instead



Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

73,260 games 0.005 secs 14,652,000 games/sec

Board: 2c 4c 5s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 32.027% 31.69% 00.34% 23214 249.00 { 6c6d }
Hand 1: 67.973% 67.63% 00.34% 49548 249.00 { 77+, 55-44, 22, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, Qc9c, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c }


vs an extremely tight flop betting range with no pure bluffs and completely ignoring how often he's cbet bluffing with Ax and the value derived from a 3 on t/r.

we're getting 2.25-1, vs this extremely tight flop betting range we need 2-1. next

lol wtf @ fold flop? level?

excellent trolling by X, wpwp

laughing a lot at the thought of his posts being serious..

If he has a FD with overs, then you are actually behind once you guys get it in. In fact, if you get it in, you are behind every single possible holding he can have, and are down to 6 outs at best if he is ahead now.

Your flop raise is also too weak. Hit the pot button and bet at least $5 to get some FE in there, as he is probably correct to call your raise with a FD with overs, and defintely correct to 3bet you.

A better play instead is to just flat, and evaluate turn. If he is playing air or a FD, he might check turn, allowing you to take control of the hand.

Keep this pot small.

yes, if there wasn't turn nor river we should call

mynameispalle i'm surprised you don't realize this is a very similar spot to one of the most misplayed hands in this forum

the hand is something like this

1.5bb from blinds, we open 3bb, get 3bet to 9bb, pot is 13.5bb, we need to call 6bb getting 2.25 to 1

our hand is
against the tightest of the range of qq+,ak we have 36% equity


everyone in these limits have bet sizing tells, this is one of them

troll or no troll, everyone should listen to the advice they find logical, not blindly taking it

making it close to pot on a low board isnt indicative of anything, especially when villain is a total unknown.
i dont really think this spot is close to us having JJ and getting 3bet by a nit
i will add that if we knew more about villain this could be an easy fold on flop, but with no info im not folding

how is it not close? we have the odds, you must really suck post flop to ever fold jj pre

am i missing something?

exactly, we have no info on villain what so ever

if it was my first hand on the table i would fold flop because we have no post flop reads to make correct decisions

if it's his standard cbet size we can exploit that later

with JJ we have only a preflop decision, there are 3 more streets to fk up
with 66 we only have 2, on a board where we are a favorite over tight ranges
its not that similar really

We´re probably behind if villian bets like this on this board though i dont really hate X!!! opinion... but I think there are still ways of getting value of our hand...

I think our main problem is our bet sizing... we´re inflating the pot with a thinvalue hand...,

let´s assume he´s betting his whole betting range on this board with the amount he did, still aggreeing with X!!! that he´s probably valuebetting...

now the important thing, no matter how big we raise he´ll stack off with everything he´s stacking off with anyways... but he´ll play a different part of his range different if we just clickraise or 2,x the flop

eg: Villian holds pp 88 on this board...

good:
he bets 1,2 reasonable
we raise to 2,75 he´s screwed with 88 he can´t repop cause he´ll just isolate himself to better hands and well be forced to make a hugh mistake or.. he´ll call and we´ll probably r able to make him fold later... eg overcard turns... + we can actually make the best hand with 6solid outs... ++ if villian raises he usually is vbetting in this spot because we look pretty strong + he bet strong on the flop so we can comfortably fold...

bad: we raise bigger in this spot... we actually should know that he´s probably vbetting but we feel kinda commited cause we invested lil more + his raise was bigger so the pot is bigger...
now you might say just 3bb but it kinda adds up and we don´t wanna create hughpots without a big hand especially if we have the benefit of position...

Option B.. which I like a little big more is calling and evaluating turns, if he bets big on any card again FOLD if you dont hit!!!!!!!!!!! if he bets smaller he´s likely to be thinly vbetting and probably you´re able to turn your hand into a bluff succesfully by raising small turn to induces a fold or call and then shove river etc.

@ X!!, the turn and river is irrelevant, we're making a +EV call on the flop

i understand what you're getting at, but its really not a difficult fold to 2barrels when we dont improve

I disagree. If making an in a vacuum +EV call on the flop would mean making -EV decisions on turns and/or rivers, we should absolutely fold as we lose money buy messing up anything that goes beyond the flop. If. Fundamentally you're correct. But if we more often than not mess up turns/rivers, the fundamental error of folding on the flop would be outdone by the errors on turns and/or rivers. If.

tl;dr bro

cliffs: if you are really bad at poker, fold flop