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villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible

10-18-2010 , 02:49 PM
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($25)
UTG ($47.39)
MP ($26.24)
CO ($31.52)
Hero (Button) ($32.13)
SB ($16.19)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 5
2 folds, CO bets $0.85, Hero raises to $2.50, 2 folds, CO calls $1.65

Flop: ($5.35) 3, 5, 8 (2 players)
CO bets $3, Hero raises to $10.25, CO raises to $29.02 (All-In), Hero calls $18.77

Turn: ($63.39) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($63.39) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $63.39 | Rake: $3
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 02:54 PM
Your pretty much flipping if he shows up with AA-99 or AKss, your still like 30% vs any set on that flop. I dont know what he has got it in with here, I would guess probably some two pair kind combo, perhaps 85 or 53 which your still like 43% against.

Its a fairly break even play (especially against a 35/24) I would say until you run into the top of peoples ranges which on this board are sets obviously.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:01 PM
Why are you reraising vs folding pre? Fold or call (Not a fan)... assuming no reads?

Why are you reraising on the flop with a gut shot and calling his flop jam? It is about a 50/50 to an over pair, but it yells something like QQ+ & it isnt like there was $ 20 in the pot on the flop to be aggressive with.

You could have small balled this and saved a ton of cash or been more comfortable with aggressive play if you hit it. Call pre, call flop, hell even call the turn and river bets and you would have been in a better position. Not saying it would be a great idea.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonG
Why are you reraising vs folding pre? Fold or call (Not a fan)... assuming no reads?

Why are you reraising on the flop with a gut shot and calling his flop jam? It is about a 50/50 to an over pair, but it yells something like QQ+ & it isnt like there was $ 20 in the pot on the flop to be aggressive with.

You could have small balled this and saved a ton of cash or been more comfortable with aggressive play if you hit it. Call pre, call flop, hell even call the turn and river bets and you would have been in a better position. Not saying it would be a great idea.
Read again dude. TP + FD, we're flipping most of time, but the odds are right to call.

pre is okay, though i'd prefer calling against a 35/24 (f23b stat?)
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:05 PM
against this guy flat pre >>> 3bet imo... so much value to be had in flatting...

Also r/c flop is fine.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:08 PM
Maybe they hated your pfr rather than the rest of the hand? As played, that's about as good as it gets in terms of great flops for hero's hand.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:17 PM
Am I the only one thinking calling on the flop is far superiour than raising? I mean really raising just makes our hand easier to play but isn't more +EV. Villain is going to show up with 99+ and sets alot which you're basically flipping against.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:19 PM
Nice hand well played. If he shows up with garbage, 3 bet a depolarized range in the future.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snglegend371
Am I the only one thinking calling on the flop is far superiour than raising? I mean really raising just makes our hand easier to play but isn't more +EV. Villain is going to show up with 99+ and sets alot which you're basically flipping against.
Villain is 35/24 and in the CO. His range is comprised of wayyyyy more than sets and overpairs assuming he doesn't turn into a total nit postflop.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:39 PM
Flop is standart...
Pre flop i don t 3bet so light a laggy fish but i don t have his 3bet fold % and other reads to make a decision about ur play pre flop. vs unknow with this stats i prefer to just call IP.
Regards
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:40 PM
24% PFR is most broadways, pairs and aces. The only thing in that range that connects with this board is sets and spade draws. Since he flatted your 3bet preflop, I think it's somewhat less likely he's got a big pair. His spade draws are unpaired, but probably have two overcards also, so he probably has 13 outs (7 spades + 6 overcards). For example if he has AT of spades, you are about a 52-48 or so. If he has a set, it's most likely 88 as some 33s might fold to the 3bet and there's obviously only one combo of 55 left. If he has a set you are about a 70-30 dog. If he's got an overpair like AA, then you've got about 47% equity.

When he shoves, your call is 18.77 into a pot of 44.62, which requires an equity of 29.6%, so even against a set this is correct (barely). If it's about an even split between sets and overcard spade draws, your equity is about 40% and this is easily a good call. It doesn't change much if you mix in some strong pocket pairs like AA.

That said, your flop raise to $10.25 basically commits you here (you are committed when you would call a shove knowing he had the nuts), and so if there is a mistake here, that's it. The ways to beat a lag are to trap, to go into a slight calling station mode when you have equity, and to play back at him. I don't think the $10 overbet fits into any of them. I think I just call the turn, keep the pot small and try to hit.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 03:45 PM
grunch;

Actually I dont like it vs this villain. A 3bet flatting range from a 35/25 player is basically PP's. He's never folding to a raise on this flop, one in which he easily makes sets, so your semibluff has no FE. You are much better off just calling and hoping to hit. Being open ended on that turn definitely commits you to the hand so you could just snap SHIP it on him right there, at which point your decisions become trivial.

If the turn blanked, or if you're feeling REALLY frisky and want to bluff a scare card then maybe theres some room left to maneuver here, but otherwise be ready to check fold, as it's unlikely you will be given any decent odds to draw when he fires his 2nd barrel.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 04:01 PM
If you know that his donking range is weak, then a raise on the flop is definitely good. Otherwise a call is probably better.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 04:02 PM
Looking at it from his point of view, your 3bet looks like a big pair or big ace obviously. When you overbet, his likely holdings are AA or KK, a set, or a flush draw again. Here the set and big pairs are what would motivate him to shove over you most, whereas the flush draw would be a semibluff. If you have 256 hands with him, you should have some sense for how likely the semibluff with a flush draw is here.

Figure there are 3 combos of 88, 1 of 55, 3 of 33. He might fold some 33's preflop, so count these as 6 combos total.

There are 6 each of combos of AA and KK. He might not overshove KK, but there will be some QQ and below to compensate. 12 combos total, but these are probably 4betting preflop at least half the time, so count it as 6 combos.

Spade draws: AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT: 10 combos.

When you make your flop raise, you should have a lot of fold equity again any other hand other than the above. A8 is the only one worth considering (12 combos) and I'd expect most of these would fold to the 3bet, so figure this is worth 4 combos total.

The real question for the math is what % of the time if he has one of the spade draws do we think he would come over the top to our flop overbet? I think the calculation I did above is still basically sound, but if he shoves a lot of flushes here as a semibluff, this might be a good way to play it. This kind of shows why it's so much better to semibluff with a pair and a flush draw rather than just the draw: when we get semibluffed back, the pair gives us a lot of equity.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinity235
Read again dude. TP + FD, we're flipping most of time, but the odds are right to call.

pre is okay, though i'd prefer calling against a 35/24 (f23b stat?)
He doesnt have top pair, he has mid pair, and its a five.

Regardless, why get it all in now? He has 13 outs, and thats assuming the Villain wasnt pushing AKss

Why not call the flop & turn bets, dont reraise, and go from there?

Call pre if you want to sure. I can see the value of position.
But why get it all in on a draw? He could have seen the turn for $ 3.00 vs the rest of his $ 30 stack. Even if the Villain bet say $ 10 on the turn and hero called, you could have seen the river and folded to a bet and still saved $ 20.00. If villain jammed the turn, I dont think hero would be getting the right odds to call, and would have saved more money.

Why doesnt this make more sense to small ball it? He would have saved money.

Consider this... you are literally flipping a coin for $ 30 against anyone on the street. Simple heads or tails. Your opponent says ( oddly enough ), if you put up $ 3.00 instead of $30, I will put up my $ 30 now. There $ 33 in the pot. Then after the coin lands, see if you won. Then if you win, you can put in the $ 27 and take the entire pot back of $60. If I win, I only take $ 33 and you saved $ 27. Hero was presented with similar opportunity and said... lets gamble. He could have had the same information for a lot less money.

Just because the player is a specific type doesnt mean he doesnt have you crushed or take advantage of getting your draw card for cheap.

Last edited by JasonG; 10-18-2010 at 05:36 PM.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 06:19 PM
Raising this type of villain is terrible. You have an SPR of 10 on the flop. You know this type of player hates folding so when you raise his donk unless you have a read that he donks air you're basically committed to getting stacks in on the flop and flipping.

Since this villain hates folding if you flatted flop you could easily stack him when your draw hit on the turn or river and fold if you missed saving you some $$$.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote
10-18-2010 , 06:23 PM
Who gives a **** what people at the table say?

Your play is fine... Preflop is debatable, if he calls alot of 3bets flatting and playing IP is better.
villian is 35/24 over 256 hands i like my play but everyone at table thought it was horrible Quote

      
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