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two vulnerable hands vs. a donk two vulnerable hands vs. a donk

07-18-2008 , 09:47 AM
I've played with this guy a few times before, and he's pretty donkish, but also somewhat aggressive. He shows 55/27/4.3 over a few hundred hands

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($59)
UTG ($53.90)
MP ($31.05)
Button ($53.60)
SB ($21.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, T.
3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.50) 3, 9, 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.5, SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6.25, SB raises to $20.85 (All-In), Hero??

In this hand, there was no pfr, so he can't really have a very strong holding pf (not the way he plays). On the flop, his c/r could indicate anything like A3, A7, A9, 97, 86, T8, JT, or definitely even just air (no pp because he will raise these all pf). So, I figure my 3bet could push him off a number of these hands, esp if he has air. But when he 4bets AI, my hand certainly doesnt look as good. Yet still, against him I think I have 11 outs most of the time. But even with 8 outs, I now have pot odds to call, so I did. Is there a better line here or is this fine? Maybe my 3bet shouldve been a shove? Or do you not even get involved here...?

EDIT: He may also have a fd here, which definitely limits the number of outs that I have, but even still, against this guy...

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($57.30)
SB ($65.65)
BB ($19.55)
UTG ($22)
MP ($67.20)
CO ($52.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, K.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.35) T, 7, 3 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $1.5, Hero raises to $4, BB folds, MP raises to $15, Hero??

In this hand, he's so loose, that I like seeing a lot of flops with him, esp IP. The isn't a great one, but not a terrible one. Do I pitch it here? Or do you even like the flop raise?

Last edited by Cam7471741; 07-18-2008 at 09:57 AM.
two vulnerable hands vs. a donk Quote
07-18-2008 , 11:32 AM
So a player who is ridiculously loose aggressive (possibly very good, likely very bad), you want to be really aggressive to? If a player who is aggressive reacts to aggression by being more aggressive back to you, there's a straight forward solution: wait for a semi-decent hand to bust him. This includes not 3-betting the flop with Ten high and not stacking off 200BBs+ deep with TP2ndK.

Last edited by VillainUnknown; 07-18-2008 at 11:38 AM.
two vulnerable hands vs. a donk Quote
07-18-2008 , 11:50 AM
Both of these hands are folds.

A player who runs 55/27/4.3 is a complete aggro-monkey. That does NOT mean that he is a stupid money-hater. Remember, even if you're playing any two cards you'll flop two pair JUST as often as AK will; the difference is that when a modestly clever player plays J4 and an autopilot TAG plays AK, the J4 stacks the AK on a board like AJ4, but the AK does NOT stack the J4 on a board like AKJ. The advantage of playing TAG against a LAG is that usually your hand is best. The disadvantage is that usually your hand is more obvious. The way that LAGs punish TAGs is by really pushing hard on hands where they actually hit a sneaky lil' monster. Villain is telling you in both of these hands that he has done just that, and you should trust him.

Now, how could you have played these hands differently so as to avoid that ugliness?

In hand #1, your three-bet is terrible. Villain just check-raised you and you have T-high with a likely eight outs to a winner. If you push you are DRAMATICALLY overbetting the pot, and you don't want to let your opponent play back at you correctly. If you three-bet to less than all-in you give your opponent a chance to make the last bet and you sacrifice all folding equity. Slow down. Smooth-call and see what happens on the turn. Remember, you've got position in this hand, so you don't have to play it super-fast. Take your time and see how the hand develops; even one more card can really tell you a tremendous amount about the hand.

In hand #2 you create a big pot with a small hand. Villain has the betting control and you have position: that's the best possible situation to let him valuebet himself to death. If you raise you let him off the hook cheaply with his worst hands and you let him build a huge pot with his best hands. Don't give him that information! Smooth-call again. He's basically going to fire multiple barrels with his entire range, possibly even three barrels. With your hand and with position my plan would be call/call/call, checking behind if given the opportunity. Keep the pot relatively small and give your opponent the maximum number of opportunities to bluff. Incidentally, a turn club does not scare me here. I figure him for a pocket pair, overs, or possibly a suited connector that hit one pair, and I'm doing well against that range.

When I have an aggressive opponent that I want in the pot, I let HIM do the betting.
two vulnerable hands vs. a donk Quote
07-18-2008 , 01:59 PM
Ok, that was really helpful. Thanks.
two vulnerable hands vs. a donk Quote

      
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