TT standard river spot. Call or fold? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash

TT standard river spot. Call or fold?

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

1 2

Page 1 of 2

1 2

08-29-2009 , 03:49 PM

wdead

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

Villain is Patriomuerte on stars. Seems decentish and reggish. Aggro but not spewy IMO.

What kind of range do you put villain on? Is he ever bluffing river after he ch back the turn? What better hands besides 44 or some rando 4x 2 pair can he have? Would he pot control Qx on the turn? Isnt he 2 barreling all of his draws?

Call or fold river?
Poker Stars $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $587.35
Hero (SB): $452.40
BB: $366.00
UTG: $742.35
MP: $2121.65
CO: $450.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with T

2 folds, CO raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $10, 1 fold

Flop: ($28.00) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $20, Hero calls $20

Turn: ($68.00) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($68.00) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $56, Hero ?

Quote

08-29-2009 , 04:07 PM

MCizz

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,143

he could also easily have 67s here if he's slightly loose preflop

I would have 3 bet him preflop first of all and then this flop is an easy bet fold after that

as played you're folding the river, i feel if he had a high flush draw he'd at least try and check it back for some equity

Quote

08-29-2009 , 04:10 PM

wdead

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

Given we have not much history in 3b pots I think 3betting pre is pretty bad. Also he has 67 here like 0% of the time.

Quote

08-29-2009 , 04:21 PM

Paul McSwizzle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,531

tough and frequent spot... i do think you see pot-controlling queens a lot here, but i tend to auto-look him up in this spot

i really cant put him on a huge value range except Qx that pot-controlled (QT?) 44/and random hands thta made 2pr with the 4 like 54

id call

after a bit more thought, i definitely like a call bc he can prolly be valuebetting A8s or 99 here, both of which would take this line. given that u beat some hands in his value range as well as his bluff, i think it's a call for sure

Quote

08-29-2009 , 05:40 PM

xxmagicianxx

adept

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,105

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCizz

he could also easily have 67s here if he's slightly loose preflop

No.

I think this is a very straightforward lookup w/out reads, am I missing something?

Quote

08-29-2009 , 05:52 PM

Alexos

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,968

this line doesn't make much sense as a bluff.. maybe hes vbetting K9/A9 though

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:07 PM

jaglawson

adept

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,096

2 missed FDs, Q high board and you called out of the blinds, I'd call.

This is really read specific though, some people barrel in this spot, and some auto check/give up when FDs miss. I'd be noting this at SD

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:10 PM

SA3

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,148

ezzzzzzzz call. nh.

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:13 PM

nuggetz87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 15,728

well what are you c/c flop for showdown value (since you didn't try to take it on turn or river) with, that you flatted a CO raise in the SB with? honest question, looking for an answer. TT seems like one of, if not the weakest hand in your range after you check the river with Qx being most common.

i mean there are some people it's a 'straightforward lookup' against...they're called regfish.

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:15 PM

#10

wdead

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuggetz87

kind of why i posted this hand

I so obviously have showdown value and villain so obviously should not be bluffing with this line (villain is a reg not a fish). But wtf does villain even have?

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:18 PM

#11

xxmagicianxx

adept

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,105

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuggetz87

well what are you c/c flop for showdown value (since you didn't try to take it on turn or river) with, that you flatted a CO raise in the SB with? honest question, looking for an answer.

I have no ****** clue yet, which is why I'm going to call here.

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:19 PM

#12

nuggetz87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 15,728

if we can't really assume he's good enough to know anything i'd call and make a note.

Last edited by nuggetz87; 08-29-2009 at 06:19 PM. Reason: heh posted same time as magician

Quote

08-29-2009 , 06:22 PM

#13

xxmagicianxx

adept

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,105

BTW OP, I def wasn't trying to imply anything with my first post. Just thinking out loud.

Quote

08-30-2009 , 03:11 AM

#14

SA3

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,148

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuggetz87

well what are you c/c flop for showdown value (since you didn't try to take it on turn or river) with, that you flatted a CO raise in the SB with? honest question, looking for an answer. TT seems like one of, if not the weakest hand in your range after you check the river with Qx being most common.

i mean there are some people it's a 'straightforward lookup' against...they're called regfish.

am i missing something? weakest = strongest?

Quote

08-30-2009 , 03:35 AM

#15

wdead

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuggetz87

if we can't really assume he's good enough to know anything i'd call and make a note.

Yea this is what I did, just wanted to see. I had a really tough time putting villain on a hand, since I expected him to bet all better hands on the turn but not many bluffs make sense. Usually I can put villain on a range very accurately so I just wanted to post this and see if I was missing anything. Thanks for the responses guys.

Quote

08-30-2009 , 07:31 AM

#16

SA3

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,148

results?

Quote

08-30-2009 , 07:53 AM

#17

didonk

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,751

anyone like a valuebet on the river? i think i do

Quote

08-30-2009 , 09:18 AM

#18

Daliman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 14,911

I like a raise here. You may have the best hand anyways, and in case you don't, you can still rep stronger than he can, (unless you know this guy won't fold a Q) and possibly even make this the rarely-seen value bluff. Call at a minimum obv.

Quote

08-30-2009 , 10:31 AM

#19

schreech26

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,310

I don't like a raise at all. In a vacuum it *might* be slightly more profitable than a call, but as part of an overall gameplan it sucks.

Quote

08-30-2009 , 12:14 PM

#20

IV.Geoffrey

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,291

he can't have the nuts i like a raise here, u should def look him up too...

Quote

08-30-2009 , 01:14 PM

#21

F_Ivanovic

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,659

Quote:

Originally Posted by schreech26

I don't like a raise at all. In a vacuum it *might* be slightly more profitable than a call, but as part of an overall gameplan it sucks.

exactly... really annoying how in nearly every thread I see these days someone is suggesting to bluff-raise on the river rather than calling/folding. Especially when we have hands with good amount of SD value; it just means that when you have a missed FD in this spot, you can no longer raise as a bluff because you decided to ruin your image by bluff-raising a hand with a ton of SD value anyway.

As for the hand I usually v.bet river myself. River is often read dependant; vs some villains I can be sure they often have a pot controlled Qx here but without reads I'll often just call and take note

Quote

08-30-2009 , 01:55 PM

#22

nuggetz87

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 15,728

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA3

am i missing something? weakest = strongest?

well what's your range after you c/c flop if you = wdead?

Quote

08-30-2009 , 02:14 PM

#23

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Call TT fold 77, and why didn't we 3bet pre seriously? Also a raise seems very very stupid, unless villain has a history of auto betting rivers in situations like this.

Quote

08-30-2009 , 02:26 PM

#24

MCizz

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,143

I can't really decide what he has here, i see this a lot with worse players who try and bet a lot on the river with missed draws and you see a really inconsistent line. If he's decent i guess he probably just spiked something ridiculous

just my thoughts i suck at hand reading

Quote

08-30-2009 , 03:08 PM

#25

wdead

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 6,697

I really dont see the point in c/r bluffing. I have so much showdown value I might as well just call, plus it looks like villain could have nothing at all...

I didnt 3b pre because like I said, I dont have extensive history w/ villain, and I dont want to have to shove if he 4bets, and you dont have to 3b every time you have a good hand preflop.

Results: KK LOL

Quote

Page 1 of 2

First

1 2

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

First

1 2

Last