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06-10-2009 , 06:40 AM
Hi...I have been lurking these forums for a while, haven't really posted much, but this hand, as simple as it is, has just stumped me lol. Please help :P

Villain is 27/14 over 37 hands...he was only playing one table, no prominent reads on him.

What i want to know is, how is my play up to the river, and as played what is the optimal play on the river?

Thanks.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($44.40)
Button ($50.35)
SB ($55.35)
Hero (BB) ($50)
UTG ($29.90)
MP ($142.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
4 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero bets $2.50, SB calls $2

Flop: ($5) K, 9, 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4

Turn: ($13) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9, SB calls $9

River: ($31) K (2 players)
SB bets $14.50, Hero folds

Total pot: $31 | Rake: $1.50
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Tough spot with AA
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06-10-2009 , 07:02 AM
I think you played it fine river sucks but I fold here too.
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06-10-2009 , 07:20 AM
It looks like he has a K in his hand, probably not AK since he's just been calling you down. I probably would have bet around $10 on the turn. The river is a terrible card, and you're probably behind on river, a fold is probably correct. It does seem strange for him to donk into you, as you'd probably have fired a bet anyway, and he could have c/r'ed it. I wonder what others think of it.
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06-10-2009 , 07:26 AM
Sometimes i play Aces hard on the turn here. What I mean by that is just over betting the pot on the flop/turn. Bad players can't fold top pair at these stakes IMO.
But good fold! I probably pay him off knowing i'm beat lol.
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06-10-2009 , 08:14 AM
Thanks guys, your posts make sense. Anyone have any different arguments for say calling instead of folding?
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06-10-2009 , 08:36 AM
^If you don't have any strong reason to believe he's bluffing then yeah, it's a fold. Well played.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinBoob
Thanks guys, your posts make sense. Anyone have any different arguments for say calling instead of folding?
One argument is of course thar we´re getting 3:1 for our money, so we only have to be good like 25% of the time.... but for me it´s still a fold.

If there were any kind of flush or straight draws on the flop then I´d probably call the river.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinBoob
Thanks guys, your posts make sense. Anyone have any different arguments for say calling instead of folding?
Ithink this is pretty much a coin flip on the river. We only need to be good here 25% of the time and I see people donking this with junk at times. Without reads it might just be a fold but I might be willing to give up a tiny amount of equity for information here. It really depends on my mood but I don't think calling here's terrible by any means.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 09:07 AM
yea agree his line looks so much like Kx
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06-10-2009 , 09:10 AM
A lot easier to justify a call here if the flop is two tone / more coordinated.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mg0698
yea agree his line looks so much like Kx
this

His line screams a K.. he totally doesn't know where he's at with the passive line he is taking and when the K pops up he bets big on the river, not even caring about what hand you are holding.
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06-10-2009 , 09:37 AM
Wp. Nh
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06-10-2009 , 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon65
A lot easier to justify a call here if the flop is two tone / more coordinated.
This.

Although I still see this line at times with wierd second pair hands. I think if the flop was 2-tone this is a snap call with the weak bet-sizing on the river. I'm a station though.
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06-10-2009 , 09:57 AM
I'm not sure here, I think you are good 25% of the time and that a call is worthy. Such a marginal position to be in, a fold here is never a bad move and justified, nice discipline
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOfPain
His line screams a K.. he totally doesn't know where he's at with the passive line he is taking and when the K pops up he bets big on the river, not even caring about what hand you are holding.
Not knowing the limit well, why do we think he is so passive on the flop with top pair? You say he doesn't know where he is, but, betting or c/ring the flop seems like the best way he could have gone about finding out....

Am I the weirdo in thinking this could be something like Jacks that decided to make a move when the second king arrived, assuming Hero probably DIDN'T have a king and was just continuation betting.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPowers
Not knowing the limit well, why do we think he is so passive on the flop with top pair? You say he doesn't know where he is, but, betting or c/ring the flop seems like the best way he could have gone about finding out....

Am I the weirdo in thinking this could be something like Jacks that decided to make a move when the second king arrived, assuming Hero probably DIDN'T have a king and was just continuation betting.
You're not weird for thinking that it could be something like JJ but I wouldn't give villain credit for putting any thought behind trying to bluff is off here.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 11:52 AM
I think if you consider that you get to see what he has when he donks like this, and you have good pot odds, I make a crying call. If villain does have something like A9 or JJ or T9, he could think you are FOS after the board pairs the K and donk to see if his pair is any good, rather than call a larger river value bet. I don't think this happens that much, but combined with our good odds and the information we get when we call, I think I call.
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06-10-2009 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPowers
Not knowing the limit well, why do we think he is so passive on the flop with top pair? You say he doesn't know where he is, but, betting or c/ring the flop seems like the best way he could have gone about finding out....

Am I the weirdo in thinking this could be something like Jacks that decided to make a move when the second king arrived, assuming Hero probably DIDN'T have a king and was just continuation betting.
A lot of players are very passive on 25nl, and even if this player isn't, maybee he's calling not with AK but with a weaker Kx hand which is probably not reraising and tries to keep the pot small.
Hero is representing the K pretty well and villain is not affected by it what so ever.. but I could be wrong though.
Tough spot with AA Quote
06-10-2009 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOfPain
A lot of players are very passive on 25nl, and even if this player isn't, maybee he's calling not with AK but with a weaker Kx hand which is probably not reraising and tries to keep the pot small.
Hero is representing the K pretty well and villain is not affected by it what so ever.. but I could be wrong though.
That is kind of a key point for me. Do people at NL25 exercise pot size control? Also, if he does believe in pot size control, he may think that leading out is better since he can control the bet size.

I'm not sure hero is representing a K so much as "I started with a good hand and I'm going to keep betting until you tell me you have a better one."
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06-10-2009 , 11:28 PM
Thanks for the comments guise
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06-11-2009 , 12:41 AM
You cannot call this river and be profitable. Unless you know villain is loose, bluffing, and semi ******ed- I dont see how that would be a good call.
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