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AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF?

05-04-2020 , 09:32 AM
.50/1, 6max, $100 effective. CO and BB are both VPIP 33%-50%, PFR<20%. This have

OTTH

CO open limps, hero raises $4 OTB A T, and both BB and CO call.

Flop ($12.50): A K 7. X around.

This is something I've been wondering about - is it a leak to be x'ing AT here? I have go to been betting AJ top pair or better, and x'ing all worse As for about a year. Is this bad? Should we be betting all As or what? Should we be betting AT on more wet boards and including it in our x range on dry boards? Should we be auto betting it versus fish, and x'ing versus others?

Turn ($12.50): 5. BB leads $9 and only hero calls.

River ($30.50): 2. Villain bets $25. Hero? I see a lot of bluffing on the app after flop checks and it almost feels like this is a call. It also feels strong, though, 3 ways. This was what made me think - should we just start betting AT?
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-04-2020 , 02:43 PM
Bet flop - but this is a board where you are going to need 2 cbet sizing's because it's 3 way. Heads up you just want to be bombing it and this hand would be mixed.

So we can bet small with our weaker Ax and some hands like AA and then overbet pot with our AK/KK and some bluffs.

Fold river you don't even have a
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-04-2020 , 07:34 PM
So do you think it's a mistake that I've been x'ing back AT top pair of A routinely? For example, HU HJ v BB do you c bet A T on A 7 6 board?
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-04-2020 , 07:46 PM
I think you can bet AT on that flop; a lot of the aces that beat you are gonna be 3betting you pre, and you don't want to give two players a free card to improve, especially with a flush draw out there.

IDK whether you have to call that river bet or not. I'd probably fold, but what do I know.
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-04-2020 , 07:59 PM
It's not a mistake in the way most people think of mistakes. You aren't losing EV OTF since it is a mixed strategy. But you are allowing your opponents to realize equity a bit too much, since your check back range is slightly too strong.

The only way someone could exploit you is to overfold vs your delayed cbet since you have Ax too often.

As far as your example: I don't think it is helpful to think in binary terms like do I cbet this, yes or no?

Your cbet sizing should be different on these different types of boards:

HJvsBB

A76r
A74r
AT9r

For your example - well I've solved A87r and A74r the solver mostly likes pot sized bets around 1/3 of the time and ATo would be checked. But if you use a 2 cbet sizing strategy then you could use 33% + 100% and put ATo mostly in your 1/3 sizing.

It really just depends on your strategy. I'd say for most people - betting small is easier in general even though it is less EV. So I'd cbet here.

You also get to exploit people under XRing. The counter to this strategy of 1/3 is too start over XRing and putting a lot of marginal hands in tough spots, but no one really does this so you should be okay.
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-04-2020 , 09:42 PM
what DDP said

as played: I fold turn - pretty transparent donk


my 2c:

pre: ISO big - 5x-6x

flop:

couple of things:
you can cbet that flop since you are IP and last to act - but multiway sizing should be smaller - like 1/4 or 1/3 - but it will be no use - so checking is not so bad

before you bet :
think what/how many turns are favourable to you? what all cards you like to see to continue? more the better

think what all ranges would continue after your bet? what all cards you dont like to see? less the better
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-05-2020 , 02:04 AM
we shouldn't call with every Ax otr and this one is the worst pretty much
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-05-2020 , 03:37 AM
solid fold
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-05-2020 , 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
It's not a mistake in the way most people think of mistakes. You aren't losing EV OTF since it is a mixed strategy. But you are allowing your opponents to realize equity a bit too much, since your check back range is slightly too strong.

The only way someone could exploit you is to overfold vs your delayed cbet since you have Ax too often.

As far as your example: I don't think it is helpful to think in binary terms like do I cbet this, yes or no?

Your cbet sizing should be different on these different types of boards:

HJvsBB

A76r
A74r
AT9r

For your example - well I've solved A87r and A74r the solver mostly likes pot sized bets around 1/3 of the time and ATo would be checked. But if you use a 2 cbet sizing strategy then you could use 33% + 100% and put ATo mostly in your 1/3 sizing.

It really just depends on your strategy. I'd say for most people - betting small is easier in general even though it is less EV. So I'd cbet here.

You also get to exploit people under XRing. The counter to this strategy of 1/3 is too start over XRing and putting a lot of marginal hands in tough spots, but no one really does this so you should be okay.
Thank you for the time and effort that went into this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubakkur2
what DDP said

as played: I fold turn - pretty transparent donk


my 2c:

pre: ISO big - 5x-6x

flop:

couple of things:
you can cbet that flop since you are IP and last to act - but multiway sizing should be smaller - like 1/4 or 1/3 - but it will be no use - so checking is not so bad

before you bet :
think what/how many turns are favourable to you? what all cards you like to see to continue? more the better

think what all ranges would continue after your bet? what all cards you dont like to see? less the better
I'm confused. You're saying bet, but then you're saying the less bad turn cards, the better...So are you saying we should be more likely to check in those cases?
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote
05-06-2020 , 02:39 AM
X flop is perfectly fine, specially multiway
AT Top Pair Faces Two Large Bets After X Flop On 3 Flush Board. Stop Default X'ing AT TP OTF? Quote

      
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