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top 2 vs reg.

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07-16-2014 , 06:03 PM

Zombiefan

adept

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,175

ft3bet 33 (3/9) f vs cb 17 (3/18) cb 58

Are you 3betting this pre?
Are you raising this flop? If so how much?

OnGame - $0.10 NL FAST (5 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 94.3 BB (VPIP: 35.48, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 32)
Hero (SB): 101.5 BB
BB: 185.6 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
UTG: 83.3 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
CO: 418.9 BB (VPIP: 22.92, PFR: 17.54, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 572)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) T

Hero checks, CO bets 5.5 BB hero???

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07-16-2014 , 06:07 PM

meale

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Are you 3betting this pre?

If villain is opening a wide range from LP, yes, I like having this hand in my 3betting range here.

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Are you raising this flop? If so how much?

Yep, to about 25bb I'm thinking.

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07-16-2014 , 06:13 PM

Zombiefan

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,175

His pfr is 16% from the CO so not that wide.

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07-16-2014 , 06:15 PM

meale

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombiefan

His pfr is 16% from the CO so not that wide.

How big is the sample? 16% is pretty small tbh. I guess vs that range you could flat or 3bet. If I knew his pfr was 16% here I'd probably look at fold23bet or fold to resteal to justify if 3betting here would be right.

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07-16-2014 , 06:18 PM

Patje90

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,708

Flat pre, raise now.

He is just not folding to much vs 3b or cb to justify a 3b here. He also opens not much.

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07-16-2014 , 06:18 PM

Zombiefan

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,175

His fold to 3bet is 33 % 3/9. It's in the OP. His low fold 3bet was why i didn't 3bet.

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07-16-2014 , 06:21 PM

meale

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Originally Posted by Zombiefan

His fold to 3bet is 22 % 3/9. It's in the OP. His low fold 3bet was why i didn't 3bet.

Oh yeah, sorry didn't see that. Yeah flatting pre is perfectly fine.

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07-16-2014 , 10:00 PM

SlowItDown

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,732

3 bet pre, i doubt you will be able to flat this profitably from the blinds

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07-16-2014 , 10:24 PM

Zombiefan

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,175

^ should i fold pre instead then? He doesn't like to fold to 3bets and has a really low ftcb stat. I pretty much have to hit something if i 3bet, no?

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07-16-2014 , 10:56 PM

#10

Check_The_Nuts

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Samoleus thinks this is the ideal hand to call preflop and he would never 3bet it. So idk depends on who you ask wtf to do preflop.

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07-16-2014 , 11:00 PM

#11

SlowItDown

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombiefan

^ should i fold pre instead then? He doesn't like to fold to 3bets and has a really low ftcb stat. I pretty much have to hit something if i 3bet, no?

Ya i would rather fold than call pre. However just bc he calls a lot of 3bets, it doesnt mean this isnt a profitable 3bet, it depends how sticky he is post flop, and what hands he calls with.

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Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts

Samoleus thinks this is the ideal hand to call preflop and he would never 3bet it. So idk depends on who you ask wtf to do preflop.

I dont know who that is but thats sounds like a old name that prob doesnt play in todays games

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07-16-2014 , 11:11 PM

#12

Check_The_Nuts

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Samoleus was a legend. He destroyed party poker back at its height then went on to kill pokerstars/full tilt poker. He played something like 9 hours straight 5 days a week against mostly regulars and was the biggest winner repeatedly by month for multiple years at stakes of 5/10 and 10/20 nl. He also played a style which is seldom profitable of like 40/30 or 40/20, not sure which, but his vpip was above 40.

Anyhow when he said he flatted t9ss type hands preflop I thought the same as you, it must be difficult to be profitable doing that....

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07-16-2014 , 11:15 PM

#13

SlowItDown

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts

Ya he did that in 2007, i could do that in 2007 as well, i would bet my entire BR that he couldnt play 40vpip in todays game and still win

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07-16-2014 , 11:17 PM

#14

meale

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Originally Posted by SlowItDown

Ya i would rather fold than call pre.

You'd fold T9s from blinds vs CO open?

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07-16-2014 , 11:20 PM

#15

Check_The_Nuts

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Originally Posted by SlowItDown

Ya he did that in 2007, i could do that in 2007 as well, i would bet my entire BR that he couldnt play 40vpip in todays game and still win

in like 2011 he had a 40 vpip and was still winning. Saying he isn't good because he won like 4 years ago is kind of like saying tom dwan isn't that good because he was good 4 years ago. Samoleus was way sick for a long time consistently...

Honestly I can't believe you never heard of him. His old posts are still way ahead of todays thinking...

Anyhow no more arguing about this from me. If you don't realize samoleus is credible idk what to say...

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07-16-2014 , 11:32 PM

#16

SlowItDown

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Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by meale

You'd fold T9s from blinds vs CO open?

Did you read my post

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Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts

lol what is this, i didnt say he isnt good, i just said he wouldnt win if he played his style today. And he def in no longer an expert on the game since to my knowledge he no longer plays so he is not in tune with today`s environment.

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07-16-2014 , 11:36 PM

#17

Check_The_Nuts

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Well we can agree to disagree then. He played his ridiculous style profitably in relatively recent times and I would assume he is still +EV at such a high vpip even today...

You have to realize that regardless of time vpips of over 40% that were profitable were basically unheard of. I've only heard of tom dwan, samoleus, and I think viffer (live high stakes poker player) would be the only ones. Oh bldswttrs was the other guy that was hyper lag, but idk what his actual preflop stats were. Whitelime is another very loose big winner....

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07-16-2014 , 11:41 PM

#18

SlowItDown

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts

lol i just realized who i was talking to, you are delusional and have no idea what you are talking about

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07-16-2014 , 11:45 PM

#19

Check_The_Nuts

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Oh ok SID. You totally won this argument.

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07-17-2014 , 08:51 AM

#20

TWhelan

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1.) 2011 was still a long time ago.
2.) Who cares if one guy who used to play poker said to never 3bet T9s? He played a completely different style to most regs anyway as mentioned several times itt.

I would 3bet this pre more often than not.

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07-17-2014 , 10:53 AM

#21

analysisparalysis

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Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 94

I'm pretty sure Viffer said he loses money playing poker.

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07-17-2014 , 11:14 AM

#22

DaycareInferno

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Although I would like to call with T9s as much as possible, I think that in the SB vs. 3bb CO raise that your default calling range, if you have one, should be tighter than that. Mine wouldn't include T9s, and it would instead be in my default 3b range as a bluff. Against someone that we know doesn't fold much to 3b I think folding is fine.

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