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Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg

09-01-2010 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icracknuts
What about game momentum if you risk calling and lose...thats gotta have some weight to the risk of forfeiting 2 bi on river. You can fold and lose less than 1/3 bi and maintain a strong upperhand.
winning this pot is ++++momentum compared to folding. If you fold he might feel the luck is turning and start getting more confident. If he's truly tilting and overplays something like a set here he'll be devastated when he loses. He'll prob feel worse even if we end up chopping vs stuff like 97/74
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranka
He can do it with anything - with missed flush draw, with 2pair, with set.
With missed backdoor flushdraw? yah, might, but it's so small of his range. With set? No, I don't think so on that board gettinguglier and uglier he'd slow down and be somewhat happy and thinking how to extract value and not to lose even more. With two pairs? It's possible, but overall i don't think it very profitable to call in this spot, unless you have pretty strong read on his possibilities to make this suicide.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:22 PM
in whatever way he got in K9o and K7o for 100bb it's pretty damn awful but i guess if we want to make huge assumptions about our opponent we should wait for OP to post detailed reads
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barewire
usually when im playing a tilt monkey i find that one of my biggest advantages is when i have a straight
It's not a tilted monkey, it's tilted reg, who could still have control of what he's doing and do not commit suicide everytime he tilts somewhat, unless it's complete uber tilt.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barewire
in whatever way he got in K9o and K7o for 100bb it's pretty damn awful but i guess if we want to make huge assumptions about our opponent we should wait for OP to post detailed reads
Agreed about waiting for OP, but you started first making bad assumptions
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:25 PM
the only way this would be a fold is through bad assumptions. he can't be somehow tilting but also in control if he can overbet the turn here with T7, if he's trying to get unstuck and has a straight here its because we're chopping.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
winning this pot is ++++momentum compared to folding. If you fold he might feel the luck is turning and start getting more confident. If he's truly tilting and overplays something like a set here he'll be devastated when he loses. He'll prob feel worse even if we end up chopping vs stuff like 97/74
Momentum at this point is not really that great, because he will be probably dead after losing this hand for any revenge or anger, he'll get up and leave, and if u split, he'll think, man what op makes such a call, he is 100% sure i'm supertilting, villain will get some will together and slow down a litle bit to valuetown op big very next opportunity, and when he wins with T7, he'll be supersatisfied and turn around momentum big time and will head to get you on tilt.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barewire
the only way this would be a fold is through bad assumptions. he can't be somehow tilting but also in control if he can overbet the turn here with T7, if he's trying to get unstuck and has a straight here its because we're chopping.
Í've mentioned about, if it would be ME in the villain's shoes not just for fun, but just for picture, that many regs ( like me) might tilt big time and still be able to manage to not get into suicidal overbluffs. What i mean is doesn't matter how steaming i am i am not starting open shove hands or bluff bluff bluff relentlessly. I'll keep steaming, but not gonna slip all the waydown to what you expect from this villain.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureDiesel
With missed backdoor flushdraw? yah, might, but it's so small of his range. With set? No, I don't think so on that board gettinguglier and uglier he'd slow down and be somewhat happy and thinking how to extract value and not to lose even more. With two pairs? It's possible, but overall i don't think it very profitable to call in this spot, unless you have pretty strong read on his possibilities to make this suicide.
He is on tilt; He can show here almost any two cards.

Yes, I agree that huge SD valuehands like sets, 2pairs, TP/TP is very small, almost micro part of his range. Most likely it's a split or bluff, sometimes rarely he show nuts here but I think it's the same rare as set/pair.

It depends on player but if I am in huge monkey tilt then I do such crazy things. On the tilt winning player isn't winning player anymore, he have lost his dicipline and doing the things what he would do w/o pokerskills.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureDiesel
Momentum at this point is not really that great, because he will be probably dead after losing this hand for any revenge or anger, he'll get up and leave, and if u split, he'll think, man what op makes such a call, he is 100% sure i'm supertilting, villain will get some will together and slow down a litle bit. and when he wins with T7, he'll be supersatisfied and turn around momentum big time and will head to get you on tilt.
yea this is pretty spot on i dunno why momentum is being brought up really
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureDiesel
Í've mentioned about, if it would be ME in the villain's shoes not just for fun, but just for picture, that many regs ( like me) might tilt big time and still be able to manage to not get into suicidal overbluffs. What i mean is doesn't matter how steaming i am i am not starting open shove hands or bluff bluff bluff relentlessly. I'll keep steaming, but not gonna slip all the waydown to what you expect from this villain.
Other villians aren't you. It depends on villain. Some players become callingstation if they tilting, some are maniacs on tilt, some players loosen up, some tighten up etc etc.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranka
Other villians aren't you. It depends on villain. Some players become callingstation if they tilting, some are maniacs on tilt, some players loosen up, some tighten up etc etc.
As I've mentioned before, in a vacuum, this is a CALL, but don't expect to show big profit in the distance in this spot.
Example with me is just a factor for op to weight to increase his value by knowing which type of villain it is. No reads = slight positive expectation. Villain plays kinda like me, folding would be mandatory, crazy reg or stupid fish = SNAP. Do you understand what im trying to say?
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barewire
yea this is pretty spot on i dunno why momentum is being brought up really
Because not giving him any momentum when tilting is a huge +ev move. If you can maintain his state of tilt, you can easily pick him apart without having to make such sick call downs.

Him taking a $60 pot on river is not going to satisfy him at all. Momemtum has a ton to do with heads up poker, especially when the villain is prone to tilt.

Like purediesel stated, this isn't just some standard fish who has little to no hu experience. You have to take a lot of factors into the equation not just i have a straight and he is on tilt so i snap call.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:41 PM
well the momentum after we fold shouldn't matter, since we shouldn't ever fold

i meant the momentum after we call, which i think purediesel sufficiently explained
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 12:49 PM
nevermind was trying to state an example...

Last edited by icracknuts; 09-01-2010 at 01:02 PM.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 02:43 PM
I expect to see 97 or small sets wayyy more than 107 here and I call, turn bet being an obvious indicator
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 03:22 PM
Villain has 99. I hope you didn't fold.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcj57
Villain has 99. I hope you didn't fold.
It's pretty safe to assume this villain is 3bettign 99 close to 100% of the time.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsathekid
I expect to see 97 or small sets wayyy more than 107 here and I call, turn bet being an obvious indicator
I think it is likely he is 3-betting pocket pairs and wouldn't suprise me at all if he 3-bet 97s. 107s is much more likely to be flatted than 97s. Plus, I think he would want to v-bet 97 on river much more often then 3x pot it, even when tilting hard.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 03:53 PM
LOL im loving my life when I call here. Sure, were goign to chop sometimes, but we are beat here like never.
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 04:02 PM
sorry guys left out some info. i 4bet shoved 77 over his 3bet and he called with A3s

i 4bet shoved JJ over his 3bet and he called with K7o

i 4bet shoved AKs over his 3bet and he called with K9o

and i 3bet/shoved over his 4bet iwth ATs and he called with 88

this was over like 20 hands

so i think hes pretty tilted.

he had just won a sizeable pot where i flopped straight draw flush draw on flop and c/r large on flop and barreled turn over card and he held on to his measly middle pair no kicker checked down river
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icracknuts
I think it is likely he is 3-betting pocket pairs and wouldn't suprise me at all if he 3-bet 97s. 107s is much more likely to be flatted than 97s. Plus, I think he would want to v-bet 97 on river much more often then 3x pot it, even when tilting hard.
Maybe but I was thinking 22 and 55 flat alot. Also, I think most people play 97s and 107s essentially the same.

Last edited by salsathekid; 09-01-2010 at 04:50 PM. Reason: edit, meaning preflop in regards to 97s 107s thing
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote
09-01-2010 , 04:48 PM
he has way more combos of 34 then T7 when he plays it like that, so snap snap snap
Super overshove with 2nd nuts v a tilted reg Quote

      
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