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Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread

04-17-2009 , 02:34 PM
I hope this doesn't come across as rude or anything, but to all the new players posting for stats check-ups with only <10k samples, you will be far better off focusing in on improving your game by studying the stickies, CoTW threads and posting hands whilst you build up a sample size of 10k+ which will allow people to give you more reliable feedback based on your larger sample.

Also, and I'm guilty of not doing much of this myself, but I believe posted in the OP is a link to Pokey's work on doing a lot this yourself, I'm still clueless when it comes to Poker Tracker, but it will give you some basic ranges for stats like vpip/pfr which will save you posting here, focus on that first and then come back with a bigger sample IMO.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...0&fpart=1&vc=1

Good luck all xxx
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-17-2009 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStraights
I hope this doesn't come across as rude or anything, but to all the new players posting for stats check-ups with only <10k samples, you will be far better off focusing in on improving your game by studying the stickies, CoTW threads and posting hands whilst you build up a sample size of 10k+ which will allow people to give you more reliable feedback based on your larger sample.

Also, and I'm guilty of not doing much of this myself, but I believe posted in the OP is a link to Pokey's work on doing a lot this yourself, I'm still clueless when it comes to Poker Tracker, but it will give you some basic ranges for stats like vpip/pfr which will save you posting here, focus on that first and then come back with a bigger sample IMO.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...0&fpart=1&vc=1

Good luck all xxx
100% agree with you

Seriously stop posting graph with less than 20k hands and/or a win rate over 4 ptbb/100. Also, if it is your first 10k hands, you are learning the game. There might be mistakes you were doing in the first 2k hands that you don't do anymore, but those mistakes are still influencing your total stats... Posting that here is just useless.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-17-2009 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStraights
I hope this doesn't come across as rude or anything, but to all the new players posting for stats check-ups with only <10k samples, you will be far better off focusing in on improving your game by studying the stickies, CoTW threads and posting hands whilst you build up a sample size of 10k+ which will allow people to give you more reliable feedback based on your larger sample.

Also, and I'm guilty of not doing much of this myself, but I believe posted in the OP is a link to Pokey's work on doing a lot this yourself, I'm still clueless when it comes to Poker Tracker, but it will give you some basic ranges for stats like vpip/pfr which will save you posting here, focus on that first and then come back with a bigger sample IMO.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...0&fpart=1&vc=1

Good luck all xxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyJack
100% agree with you

Seriously stop posting graph with less than 20k hands and/or a win rate over 4 ptbb/100. Also, if it is your first 10k hands, you are learning the game. There might be mistakes you were doing in the first 2k hands that you don't do anymore, but those mistakes are still influencing your total stats... Posting that here is just useless.
+1 10k is the bare minimum but you need to be shooting for more than 20k. This allows your to settle into a game and then you will start seeing the resuts better. If it is your fist 10k in can be really skewed based on the first half of the results.
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04-17-2009 , 04:00 PM
I agree about not posting less than 10k hands but to say not to post if u have over a 4ptbb wr, I disagree with.. Especially at 10nl and lower where higher wr is sustainable.. U can win at a decent rate and still want input on fixing leaks.. That's the purpose of this thread.
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04-17-2009 , 04:04 PM
Any other advice on my garphs? Mpethey?
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04-17-2009 , 05:22 PM
Thank you #1ThunderFan for posting the images I couldnt and for the advices.
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04-17-2009 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyJack
100% agree with you

Seriously stop posting graph with less than 20k hands and/or a win rate over 4 ptbb/100. Also, if it is your first 10k hands, you are learning the game. There might be mistakes you were doing in the first 2k hands that you don't do anymore, but those mistakes are still influencing your total stats... Posting that here is just useless.


Is there a way to select only the last hands in my database? To use a date filter?

Thanks
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-17-2009 , 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonAU
I've read mpethey's blinds post, and I think I play along the same guidelines.
Which blind post is this, link please?

Thanks.
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04-17-2009 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStraights
Which blind post is this, link please?

Thanks.
post #489 in this thread
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04-17-2009 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonAU
post #489 in this thread
Thanks.
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04-17-2009 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444
Is there a way to select only the last hands in my database? To use a date filter?

Thanks
I don't know about others but in PT3, there is a filter system, where you can filter per limit, or from a set date, or a range of dates, plus loads of other options.



Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-18-2009 , 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStraights
I hope this doesn't come across as rude or anything, but to all the new players posting for stats check-ups with only <10k samples, you will be far better off focusing in on improving your game by studying the stickies, CoTW threads and posting hands whilst you build up a sample size of 10k+ which will allow people to give you more reliable feedback based on your larger sample.
Depends on what stats you're looking at. True for fold to river cbets, false for positional VPIP for example.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-18-2009 , 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie2k
Depends on what stats you're looking at. True for fold to river cbets, false for positional VPIP for example.
That may be true, but you don't need to post your graph and stats to now that you shoulder be tight UTG and slowly widen your range until you playing 20 vpip or whaever on the BTN, the stickies, CoTW on position and other key threads delve into this to a much greater depth then can be repeated here consistently.

Its more that I feel [new] people should try a new approach...

play - read stickies - play - post hands - play - read cotw's, guide to micro's, etc - play - post stats - play

rather then:

play - post stats - play...

I'm sure everyone who posts here has gotten something out of it, but for the new guy's, this thread can wait a few rounds, the strat threads will serve them better to be read first whilst they build up a sample. Why play 5k hands to look up stats... then read the threads on how to play better, surely reading the how to's then playing, then posting stats as a check up would be a better line IMO.
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04-18-2009 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyPixel
@ Freyjan:

- Your VPIP is waaaaaaay too high, try to tighten it up to about 11-14% until you're more comfortable postflop, generally something around 12/9 is going to be a solid starting point
- Also, try to play more positionally, you should play much tighter in EP and loosen up the closer you get to the button
+1 While your overall VPIP/PFR gap is definitely too wide, what really jumped out at me was your stats from early position. Obviously it is over a very miniscule sample, but you are running 20/1 from UTG, which I think is indicative of your overall problem. While it may be correct in certain circumstances to call from mid-late position, you really should be raising or folding UTG. In all of my hands at NL25 I have exactly *1* call UTG, and that was a misclick. It should look more like 5/5 or something.

I am more concerned over the open limping than calling other limpers or raisers. I would really concentrate on trying to never open limp. *Never* I'm not saying that there might not be circumstances where that is warranted, but I think you might be better off by sticking to this hard and fast rule. The open limping might work at your level, but as you move up it will get picked off on almost a 100% basis. If the hand is good enough to play when you are first in it should be good enough for a raise.

Just my 2 cents.
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04-19-2009 , 11:07 AM
Hey all, ive finally made the step making an account here to get posting and hopefully take my pokerfun a step further. After watching some poker on tv and hear friends about poker ive been playing some freerolls on ftp, and later some 1+.25 sng's after a lucky night. But i felt not really good about it, the rake took all my wins and after like 25 of those i was still at the same amount i won in the freeroll.

Anyways some time ago i received an email from pokerstars that they deposited 5$ in my account. I couldnt even remember what my account was since i made it long ago to play around abit. Now i got the idea to start playing micro-cashgames with this and hopefully improve. (I know now that 5$ isnt enough to play any lvl, but at that time it looked like a chance to me).

Ive been lurking for some time now in the sticky topics and the Micro full ring forum and im amazed at the level you guys speak about poker and the knowledge in here. Now ive got some hands in i wanted to ask you guys if you see some obvious errors in there and if i should try 5NL allready or stick with this and improve.

Stats is all 1-2cent fullring at pokerstars :







Thanks in advance
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-19-2009 , 11:40 AM
Congrats on your first post shivas.

With a VPIP if 13, I think you should be raising a higher % of the hands you play, you'll make money limping to set mine with small pairs and SC's at 2nl, but think about raising them first in (small pairs that is).

You perhaps should be seeing a showdown a little more, with these stats, your 3b and AF seems good, but your ATS is really really really low, you can easily maintain a 30% ATS, I managed 40% at 5nl, and I'm at 50% now at 10nl, so you are leaving plenty of money on the table, I would try and get this up at least to 25%. Your not deffending a lot from the blinds though which is v.good at these levels.

You don't widen your range much at all for CO and BTN, your numbers up front may be okay for 2nl and 5nl, but you may need to tighten up a little bit UTG / UTG+1, depending on style. You can widen your BTN range a hell of a lot though, as with your ATS work on getting your VPIP up to at least 20-25% IMO.
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04-19-2009 , 11:54 AM
shivas:

Welcome!!!

Overall pretty good. A couple things I saw:

1) You are not positionally aware enough. Your VPIP/PFR should be increasing a lot the closer you get to the button and from what I see it doesn't increase nearly enough. Tighten up your EP range and loosen up your LP range.

2) You arent stealing enough IMO. Your ATS is only 16.51% and it should be close to 30%.

3) Overall your VPIP to PFR ratio is pretty decent but I would try increasing your PFR to get it slightly closer to your VPIP. Look for spots to squeeze and start isolating bad players more.

4) Your AF appears a bit high to me. I am no expert on this and have never seriously played at this level so it may be due to this level.

Overall you are doing very well. I wouldn't make any major changes because what you are doing is working well. If you have the proper bankroll you can start taking shots at $5nl. The farther you move up the more you need to work on the above recomendations because they will start hurting you more than they are at the $2nl level.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-19-2009 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonAU
First time I've ever messed with images on here, so sorry if it doesn't work ... I think I may be leaking from the blinds? A few thousand hands ago I was probably about -.21, so maybe I've been stacked a few times and gotten unlucky, but I may be leaking obv. I've read mpethey's blinds post, and I think I play along the same guidelines. Anything else you guys see? Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks...





I had a really hard time reading your stats; the print came out really tiny in the images.

If I read them correctly, your loss rates in the blinds are -.14 and -.16. If you are -.14 in the SB, this is a significant leak. The total of -.30/orbit is also near the borderline of a leak/not leak (on the not leak side). It looked to me like you were playing your BB far too passively; you were at 12/4 or something. This means that you are calling too many raises from the BB, and it means that you are seeing a free flop with hands that you can profitably raise. You need to get way more aggro out of the BB preflop.

As for the small blind, you are completing way too much. You should tighten up considerably, and seek opportunities to raise limpers preflop, thin the field, then win the pot with a c-bet on the flop.

Bottom line, I would like to see your BB stats go from 12/4 to 10/7 (which will be the approximate result of you following this advice) and in the SB from 25/11 to maybe 20/15 (by folding the worst hands you now complete and raising the best hands you are now just completing).

This is about the only significant area for improvement I could find.

Obviously you are leaking in EP, but I can't tell what you are doing wrong from these stats. Your preflop range in EP looks ok, maybe a little tight, but you definitely should be winning money with the range you are playing. So I'd say look at your win rates with AA, KK and QQ for starters. If they are below 4.5, 3.5 and 2.5 respectively, you are almost certainly either running really badly, or misplaying them in some way. If you don't see a problem with these hands, then I would have to do a stats review to find your EP leak(s).

Good luck.
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04-19-2009 , 04:51 PM
I was directed to post my graphs here for a more serious analysis, so here it is for 2NL and 5NL full ring. Any tips would be great.

Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-19-2009 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxwerdxx
I was directed to post my graphs here for a more serious analysis, so here it is for 2NL and 5NL full ring. Any tips would be great.

What is your ATS?

your PFR from late position seems really low it is not even twice as much as your UTG PFR.

My pfr UTG is higher than your BTN PFR.

Also, i would post your stats as a total not just by position.

Also, looks like there is a larger gap between your VPIP and PFR they should be much closer that is most likely an effect of not raising enough in LP and just calling instead.

I suck at this someone else should be able to help you alot more.

Edit to add the more stats you can show the more people can help. Stats like 3 bet%, ATS%, fold to 3 Bet% just whatever more you can add. your AF is not list at all should be listed by total and by street. I would add alot of stats to this if you really want help.

Also, make stats larger I am old i can barely read those.
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-19-2009 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnytt
What is your ATS?

your PFR from late position seems really low it is not even twice as much as your UTG PFR.

My pfr UTG is higher than your BTN PFR.

Also, i would post your stats as a total not just by position.

Also, looks like there is a larger gap between your VPIP and PFR they should be much closer that is most likely an effect of not raising enough in LP and just calling instead.

I suck at this someone else should be able to help you alot more.

Edit to add the more stats you can show the more people can help. Stats like 3 bet%, ATS%, fold to 3 Bet% just whatever more you can add. your AF is not list at all should be listed by total and by street. I would add alot of stats to this if you really want help.
So you think I should be raising more from the btn? I play very nitty as you can see. Should I throw in some SCs from LP? I tend to limp alot of PPs to setmine in LP, which could be why theres a gap between my stats
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-19-2009 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge
I had a really hard time reading your stats; the print came out really tiny in the images.

If I read them correctly, your loss rates in the blinds are -.14 and -.16. If you are -.14 in the SB, this is a significant leak. The total of -.30/orbit is also near the borderline of a leak/not leak (on the not leak side). It looked to me like you were playing your BB far too passively; you were at 12/4 or something. This means that you are calling too many raises from the BB, and it means that you are seeing a free flop with hands that you can profitably raise. You need to get way more aggro out of the BB preflop.

As for the small blind, you are completing way too much. You should tighten up considerably, and seek opportunities to raise limpers preflop, thin the field, then win the pot with a c-bet on the flop.

Bottom line, I would like to see your BB stats go from 12/4 to 10/7 (which will be the approximate result of you following this advice) and in the SB from 25/11 to maybe 20/15 (by folding the worst hands you now complete and raising the best hands you are now just completing).

This is about the only significant area for improvement I could find.

Obviously you are leaking in EP, but I can't tell what you are doing wrong from these stats. Your preflop range in EP looks ok, maybe a little tight, but you definitely should be winning money with the range you are playing. So I'd say look at your win rates with AA, KK and QQ for starters. If they are below 4.5, 3.5 and 2.5 respectively, you are almost certainly either running really badly, or misplaying them in some way. If you don't see a problem with these hands, then I would have to do a stats review to find your EP leak(s).

Good luck.
Yeah I noticed how tiny everything was after I posted it. I think its due to the resolution setting on my monitor, so I'll fix that next time. My winrates with AA, KK and QQ are approx. 5.5, 2.5, and 1.5 respectively. So I'll review some hands to see if I'm missing value, playing them badly, or just running bad, etc. Maybe I can get an idea from that. I'll also work on the blind play and try to get my vpip/pfr closer to the range you listed. I could probably isolate more from the blinds too. I'll check back in after another 25k or so. Thanks alot, very solid analysis.
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04-19-2009 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxwerdxx
So you think I should be raising more from the btn? I play very nitty as you can see. Should I throw in some SCs from LP? I tend to limp alot of PPs to setmine in LP, which could be why theres a gap between my stats
Yes considerably more i am guessing it is hard to say without seeing more stats. What is your ATS? At least 30%.
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04-19-2009 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnytt
Yes considerably more i am guessing it is hard to say without seeing more stats. What is your ATS? At least 30%.
not sure what ATS is or where to find it? Attempt to steal Im guessing? 16.31 if thats what it is
Stats and Graphs Analysis Thread Quote
04-19-2009 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxwerdxx
not sure what ATS is or where to find it? Attempt to steal Im guessing? 16.31 if thats what it is
Yeah attempt to steal and yours is pretty sick low. I am guessing alot of experience posters have ATS of like 40% or so.

YOu may want to read all the COTW's if you have not already.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ntents-397190/

Here is the one specifically about blind stealing.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ealing-419666/

More stuff here

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...Number=5348855

Sircudles guide to beating micros is here as well

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...micros-430637/

If your bored still

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ncement37.html

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69...hreads-430489/
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