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Old 02-22-2009, 07:32 PM   #1
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Heart Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Blind stealing is a topic very close to my heart, being the LAGtard nitbox that I am... so here's my advice on blind steals. I'm going to focus on stealing rather than defending and restealing, since I play pretty terribly from the blinds, but I also think that (especially for new players), working on stealing is going to be much easier and much more profitable than blind defence.

So what is blind stealing?

Blind stealing is making a preflop raise (usually from late position), in an unopened pot, to attempt to win the blinds. Hold'em Manager calculates this stat based on CO, BTN and SB raises in unopened pots, although you can still steal from other positions, depending on table dynamics.

If you haven't already read Pokey's excellent primer on blind stealing, you can find it here. Read it!

Why should I steal blinds?

It's only 1.5BBs, why should I get involved?

Because 1.5BBs is a LOT OF ****ING MONEY!!!

For performing a single blind steal, you can win 1.5BBs (a successful steal equates to 75PTBB/100 which is a silly amount). Of course it won't work every time (nor should you steal at every single opportunity), but even when the blinds defend, you still get to play a pot postflop with:

- Position (this is huge)
- Initiative
- Postflop value

So you can often take down an even bigger pot on the flop with a cbet (more on that later).

Stealing adds a TON to your bottom line.

Know your blinds

It helps a lot to know who the blinds are. Useful things to know (most of these should be pretty obvious) are:

- VPIP
- 3bet% (in particular, 3bet% from the blinds or 3bet% facing a steal)
- Fold to cbet%
- Additional history

VPIP tells us how loose the blinds are in general. This should be our main indicator of whether we can profitably steal in a given situation.

Obviously if the blinds are really loose, we can't expect our steal to take it down as often preflop. However, that doesn't mean we can't steal from loose players: we steal with a different range which we can play very profitably, in position, postflop. Instead of bluffing or semi-bluffing with our steal, we are actually value-raising.

On the other hand if we have two nits in the blinds we can steal with a huge range.

3bet% tells us how often we're going to get... 3bet (duh). If either of the blinds tend to resteal a lot, it's probably time to tighten up your stealing range. That's the easiest way to adjust to this - however, you can also adjust by 4betting light, or by widening your value 4betting range (intending to call a shove ofc, please don't turn value hands into bluffs intending to 4b/f) if they are aggro enough to bluff shove over your 4bet. But at micros, this normally isn't a huge consideration.

I ought to say something on that note, about "stealing" with a huge hand. Suppose we are on the button with AA, and we have a fairly aggro reg in the SB, who 3bets 8% facing a steal, over a decent sample. We have a bit of history, and he's 3bet our steals a few times. We've 4bet his resteal with A4s once, and he snap-folded. So now we raise and he 3bets. What should we do?

Well, 4betting is bad. I know a lot of you are stuck in auto-4bet-get-it-in mode, but this is a spot where we should be flatting. His 3bet range here is really wide, and he's not prone to shoving over 4bets. Of course he's getting it in with QQ+ and AK here, but 4betting is also folding out a ton of worse hands which we want to keep in the pot. We have position and can play the hand much more profitably postflop than preflop. We can induce huge mistakes postflop, whereas by 4betting preflop we allow him to play much closer to optimally. Range manipulation ftw. Here's an example to illustrate:

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $49.75
BTN: $35.10
SB: $28.15
BB: $72.90
UTG: $50.60
UTG+1: $78.75
MP1: $50.00
MP2: $28.45

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with K K
4 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, SB calls $1.25, BB raises to $8, Hero calls $6.50, SB calls $6.50

Flop: ($24.00) 3 3 Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $16.50, SB raises to $20.15 all in, BB raises to $36.65, Hero raises to $41.75 all in, BB calls $5.10

Turn: ($127.65) 4 (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($127.65) 9 (3 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $127.65
Hero shows K K (two pair, Kings and Threes)
SB mucks Q J
BB shows A Q (two pair, Queens and Threes)
Hero wins $43.20
Hero wins $81.45
(Rake: $3.00)

Squeezer was a reg called xxricecookaxx (fwiw it was very satisfying to stack him since he owns my soul and has a baby avatar ) and SB was a fish who we want to keep in the pot. Even without the fish it's probably a good idea to flat here.

Fold to cbet% tells us how often we can steal and cbet flop when we get called. This is especially useful against loose players. Suppose there's an 89/0 fish in the blinds, who shuts down a ton postflop when he misses, and has a ftcb of 79%. We have XX. Even though he's incredibly loose preflop, he's c/f'ing so often postflop that this is a profitable steal spot. We can fire out a 1/2 pot (or even less) cbet and take down a decent sized pot on the flop.

Similarly there are some regs who flat almost exclusively with PPs when facing a steal, and they're going to setmine (against your huge range, which isn't paying them off anyway) and fold 80% of flops when they brick. Steal away.

Like I mentioned, against weak-tight (or weak-loose) players your cbet doesn't have to be huge. Depending on board texture and opponent you can make your cbet as little as 1/3 to 1/2 pot.

Additional history is so situational that I can't really go into much detail about it. However, I will say that some regs do exceedingly stupid things when in BB vs BTN or BvB situations. I've seen a lot of this (as Goldseraph calls it) "reg spite syndrome" at 50NL, and you should adjust accordingly. If you've seen that someone is going to be making moves more often postflop and getting it in lighter, you should be willing to either tighten up your steal ranges or to get it in lighter postflop to counteract their wider ranges. Figure out when they're spewing and take advantage.

Know your button

Obviously this only applies if you're in the CO (or HJ), but you need to consider the people to act behind you. This is pretty similar to the last section, except arguably more important, since they have position on you.

There are also some people who are serial 3betters/squeezers in position. They are going to pick up on the fact that your range is so much wider in steal positions, and they will 3bet yo ass. If you sit down at a table and see greg on your left and you don't have a hot Asian girl as your avatar, there are probably better tables to sit at.

Similarly you should be one of those annoying 3betters yourself, and own lots of people stealing and isoing from the CO and HJ when you have the button. In position = In power.

What should I steal with?

Late position play is such a personal preference thing, and so situational, that I'm not going to construct exact ranges for you. If you are uncomfortable stealing with 95s, or if you suck direly postflop, then don't steal with it, that's fine. However, I will give some general guidelines:

- Play really loose from the BTN. Abuse it. Play loose from the CO. Play tighter from the HJ. Hijack is getting towards middle position, and having two players to act behind you makes stealing a lot trickier.

- Pick hands that play well postflop. This includes suited connectors, suited gappers, pocket pairs, suited broadways, strong offsuit broadways, suited aces... basically if something is s00ted you can't go too far wrong. If you're uncomfortable playing offsuit aces like A2o-A9o I suggest you avoid them. Personally I still steal with them.

- Against tight players, open up your steal range. Personally I steal with ATC against a lot of players. But stealing with 40% of hands from the button against tight blinds is still pretty respectable. Just see how much you can get away with (you'd be surprised). People just don't adjust anywhere near as much as you would expect. Ball till you fall.

- Against loose players, particularly ones who don't like folding postflop, I'd avoid hands which have little top pair/middle pair potential, such as 75s. Because you're going to be seeing a lot more showdowns, you're going to be relying on equity and playability rather than fold equity. Weight your range towards hands that can flop decently with a high frequency. Against loose-aggressive blinds, you should tighten up your steal range (or just leave the table). However, against a loose-passive fish, you can play hands like K8o and Q9o profitably, since you will flop top or middle pair pretty often, and you can get a couple of streets of value out of them. Domination just isn't as much of an issue against someone who is playing 60% of their hands.

Also, against these kinda players, if you do happen to flop a decent (but not strong) draw, you can also check back the flop a lot and take a free card. 4 cards for the price of 3.

Bet sizing

So... here is something which for me is a big factor in blind stealing. When you steal a lot, it's a good idea to make your bet sizing a bit smaller. It gives you a better price on your steals. Split's probably done this already in his bet sizing post, but let's quickly run through the math behind this:

Assuming our hand has zero postflop value (which it doesn't, of course):
- If we open to 4BB, we risk 4 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 73% of the time.
- If we open to 3.5BB, we risk 3.5 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 70% of the time.
- If we open to 3BB, we risk 3 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 67% of the time.
- If we open to 2.5BB, we risk 2.5 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 63% of the time.
- If we open to 2BB, we risk 2 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 57% of the time.

Personally, my steal from the BTN is a minraise. HappyPixel, you big donkey!

But it only has to work 57% of the time to make it profitable in its own right, and that's ignoring postflop value, which is huge (since we have equity, position and initiative). And my steal success rate has only dropped by a small amount from when I used to make it 3BB (less than the 10% needed to make minraising less profitable).

Another reason for making our steals smaller is that we have position. So we want the SPR (stack-to-pot ratio) to be higher, since we can leverage our position more effectively postflop. A smaller raise size accomplishes this.

OK, so you may think minraising is gross, and I agree it's not for everyone. But if you're making it 4x from all positions, I strongly recommend that you try opening to 3x from late position. It makes a big difference in the long run.

Also, a quick note about exploitative bet sizing: against unknowns and unobservant fish, you can open larger with your better hands, since they don't know or don't care what your standard late position open is. Flex your bet sizing (to reassert your dominance).

Stealing from the blinds

You can steal from the SB when it's folded to you. However, you should generally do so with a tighter range since you are out of position. But with only one player left to act, you can still steal with a pretty wide range (ATC if they are a nit).

And if someone open-limps the SB when you're in the BB, that is your blind. Collect it. Their range is really weak, so just make a decent-sized raise and take it down. If that fails, you still have all the postflop advantages I've already mentioned.

You can also "steal" limps... I won't go into that, but there are some interesting articles on that here:
- In position: here (by Dan Bitel)
- From the blinds: here (by MT2R)

Stack sizes

Pay attention to stack sizes. If you're deep with one of the blinds, you can steal liberally (especially with suited cards). You have higher implied odds and it's a nightmare for your opponent to play OOP while deep.

Versus shorter players, you can tighten up if they're a push-or-fold shortstack, or open lots of high-card kinda hands like Q9o if they're loose. Then flop TP and get it in. Profit! Also, against shortstacks you can make smaller steals, or if you're in the blinds vs a shortstack you can just do this:

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $58.35
UTG: $52.05
UTG+1: $10.00
MP1: $50.00
MP2: $10.85
CO: $69.25
BTN: $50.95
SB: $4.85

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with 6 J
6 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $58.35 all in , 1 fold

Final Pot: $1.00
Hero mucks 6 J
Hero wins $1.00

That's just about everything I can think of about blind stealing, so if anyone has something to add, please comment!

Happy stealing and in before tl;dr. Oh, and stay off Digger's blinds, ldo.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:37 PM   #2
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Just what the doctor ordered for me.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:48 PM   #3
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

second

tl;dr, but I will later
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:48 PM   #4
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

If you sit down at a table and see greg on your left and you don't have a hot Asian girl as your avatar, there are probably better tables to sit at.

I would just like to point out the key in this sentence is the bold part
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:38 PM   #5
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Very nice post. Got me feeling like "Hey, let me try that!"
I've recently started minraise stealing too and it's really surprising how badly they adjust, actually they just don't. CO and BTN are the only positions where I minraise, yet noone seems to pick this up.

Quote from Pokey's thread for emphasis:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokey
Despite the fact that I’ve only attempted a blind steal one time every five orbits, those steal attempts have generated over 30% of my total profits at the no-limit poker tables.
That's pretty sick
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:16 PM   #6
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing


wow. this post has just soooo many good things in it... vnh sir, you should be justifiably proud
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:32 PM   #7
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Wonderfully put together article, HP. Kudos.

I was just thinking about stealing to myself the past couple days... wondering if it might not be correct to minraise when stealing from the button (assuming the players in the blinds are worth stealing against, which they should be if we table/seat select well), but raise more when in the cutoff or further out, because we don't mind the blinds continuing (we're in position) but hate when a player behind us continues, keeping us out of position...
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:44 PM   #8
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Great article!

I just wanna say that I love minraising as a steal size. To quote myself from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by I vi ii V7 View Post
People don't adjust. And usually I have crap. Actually, 1 of 5 things typically happens, so I've noticed over the short sample I've been minraising:

1) They play their normal range and c/f when missed. I minimize my losses because the pot is smaller, and I leave more room for making moves on the turn because we are effectively deeper.

2) They 3b a tighter range because the amount they stand to win is much smaller. The weird thing it seems is that with a smaller steal size, it has to work much less often, yet it's been working with a higher frequency.

3) They call with a wider range and are now playing a crap hand OOP vs a competent hand reader. This the worst possible option for them, and best for me.

4) They 3b their normal range to a proper size. If I minraise to $1, they 3b to $3.50. If we are full stacked and I'm raising a hand that can flop hard, I'm getting better than 20:1 implied, more realistically probably 10:1 implied because they don't always stack off. I get to call with more hands because we are effectively deeper, AND I have position.

5) They 3b their normal range but they 3b larger. If I minraise to $1, they 3b to $6. This is also pretty stupid, because I fold everything but hands that crush them. They risk way too much to find out if they're beat. Pretty bad for them.
On stealing limpers from the blinds: Just keep in mind that people limping is not an automatic license to play a crap hand from the worst possible position. Sometimes it's better to complete and take a flop. Sometimes it's better just to fold and move on to the next hand, where you'll have position.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:51 PM   #9
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

nice post HP!
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:07 PM   #10
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

You don't mention what ATT% is considered acceptable. I usually average around 30% for the month.
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:18 PM   #11
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

I steal 50-55%... haven't been above 25NL much yet (and I'm all the way down slumming the nanos right now), but I don't imagine I'd steal any less at 50NL if it's as nitty as its reputation.
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:58 PM   #12
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
You don't mention what ATT% is considered acceptable. I usually average around 30% for the month.
You can't really say this with any authority; a lot depends on the stakes you are playing, your image and your table selection criteria.

That said, you should have sound reasons for not stealing:

CO--25% or more
BTN--30% or more
SB--40% or more.

Sound reasons include, but are not limited to, a lack of faith in your post flop skills, a preference for playing at tables with short stacks, a preference for playing at tables with lots of loose passive players, or a solid reg in one of the three seats to your left.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:23 AM   #13
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

nice post! i read half of it but i'll read the rest and comment later
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:29 AM   #14
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

Well done, Happy.

This can not be emphasized enough:
Quote:
[...]but even when the blinds defend, you still get to play a pot postflop with:

- Position (this is huge)
- Initiative
- Postflop value
A raised pot. In position. With initiative. Yes, please!

For many this may be the start of learning how to play postflop. Getting our steal called is not the end of the hand. It's the opening for a profitable situation.
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Old 02-23-2009, 04:06 AM   #15
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Re: Concept of the Week #4: Blind Stealing

nice post happy!

i disagree with one thing though and its not big but has to do with min betting the button at micros.

here is why.

sure... you are risking 2bb to win 1.5 instead of 3bb for 1.5. the thing is when you raise 3bb to win 1.5, when they call, they are going to miss most of the time. you have to see their fold to cbet %. also, if you min raise, at micros donkeys see this as an excuse to call with atc. so now you are playing 2 people in a 6bb pot who could have any two cards. now if they have atc, argument would be you would want to raise more for value right? like qto > 45s + j9o so sklansky's theory would say you would raise. it is maximizing profits against their mistake.

ok say you have tko on button and its folded to you. we have 2 scenarios:

HERO raises 3bb, SB folds, BB calls.

(6.5bb) 5s 6h qs

BB checks, HERO bets 4bb, BB folds

you take the pot down soooo much with this. you take down a bigger pot a greater % of the time.

scenario 2: (lets assume this is 5nl)
HERO raises 2bb, SB calls 2 bb, BB calls 2bb.

(6bb) 5s 6h qs

SB checks, BB checks, HERO bets 4bb

SB calls, BB calls

WTF???? they could have anything. 78, 34, flush draw, qrag, medium pp, set, etc. donkeys at micros call with so much so who knows where you are at. did you just value bet K high or are you drawing dead? thats the thing. pot is the same size and the chances of you being ahead here and the c-bet working are sooo much smaller.

i would much rather be heads up in the same sized pot. also, with heads up i can control the pot. when there are two people, i may not want to cbet as much (less semi bluffs and stuff too).

the only advantage i can see to min raising that i use are if the blinds are REAAALLLY tight (like 13/4 and lower) or if the blinds like to 3 bet a lot
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