I'd like to steal a thread from the high stakes forum. This should get some good conversation going among us micro ballers, I've made adjustments in blue to change the stakes for a 50NL game.

with 13.25 in the pot and 43.75 behind our SPR is ~3.3 so I think in order we want 88, KJo, A2s, then 75s

Originally I put KJo before 88 but typically if we hit a pair with it we're going to be dominated in a 3bet pot.

Easy answer for me is 88 or 75ss. You know where you are post flop and can play your opponent. KJo and A2s leave you guessing post flop in a big pot, gross.

Order of hands for me:

1. 75s
2. KJo
3. A2s
4. 88

75s has a high probability of flopping anything from a straight draw, flush draw, pair combos to a gut shot straight draw. I think this hand has the most versatility and is best disguised. KJo can flop high pairs and also has some straight potential. A2s has high pair and flush potential. 88 really only has pair value and the odds of improving to a set on the flop are low. That's the order I'd rank them in for 3betting in position.

As for how much the cards matter....not much at all. You'll have position in the hand so I think the hole cards don't matter nearly as much as people think they do.

Haha very nice.

I've started thinking of my cards as "backup". In case I get myself into a bad spot its nice to have a hand once in a while.

I read in an old pooh-bah post (don't remember which one b/c I've read so many...it may very well have been one of yours) the order of importance in NLHE ring games:

1. Position
2. Villain's image (how do you perceive your villain)
3. Your image (how do your opponents perceive you)
4. (and last) cards.

I never made a poo-bah post. Mostly because I'm teh suck at pokers.

simple? no, but interesting^^

I would have to go with 75s, 88, A2s and last kjo.

A2s and KJo are too easily dominated at this point, but I prefer A2s as an ace might represent a scare card for any pp. 75s gives me the chance of flopping a nice draw. 88 is a tricky hand as only an 8 will make me happy.

How much do the cards matter? not too much, a cbet is obligatory

This is backwards. If an ace is a scare card (1) it will come 25% less often when you're holding one and (2) you opponents will be folding when you have the best hand and confident when you have air.

I think the cards are more likely to matter in a NL50 game than in a higher limit game where 3-betting is much more frequent and players are capable of laying down a big pair.

Then consider this a poo-bah post request. Also, I'm attaching a link that I found helpful in terms of hand reading from Pokey. This post also contains a number of numbers on what two cards your villain most likely holds given his VPIP%. There's also a section that gives some flop odds (odds of flopping a flush draw, pairs, straights, etc.). For some reason I found this thread suitable for the link.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...Number=8629256

****GRUNCH***
In order I would like to have

1. 75s
2. 88
3. A2s
4. KJo

The reason is the range of the villian. I have him calling TT+/AQ+ and dont want a hand dominated. Plus in this scenarior I am cbetting that flop 100% of the time.

1. KJ is bad because if I do hit a draw, it nailed his range and I will have no FE, (of course I just stacked KK in the exact same scenario-but he was a donk), and if we both whiff on the the flop, and he decides to call my cbet, I am pretty much drawing dead.

2. 75s is an easy hand to play post flop, If I hit the flop, I have a good chance of stacking him since his overpair will be tough to lay down. I woun't have any hard decisions, I either have the best hand or air.

3. 88, same as above, but it is a set and not as strong as a str8, and the odds are less since two pair is not likely the nutz.

4. A2s, I like this one because of its potential for the wheel, but mostly if it is a K high flop with 2 or 3 cards suited, it is hard for him to put me a suited ace that is inplay. Also a X22 board looks great to pocket KK/QQ.

true, I didnt express myself correctly. I meant a pair of aces might be good against a villains calling range. and I have no problem with taking down the pot with aces and no kicker to speak off. with all those hands mentioned we are looking to take the pot on the flop unless we hit it really hard.

Thanks for the clarification. I would put it "A2s actually has decent high-card value", or in BBV parlance "Ace is a good card imo".

I knew there'd be a lot of opinions. Good thread.

but 75s with an Axx board has the same effect. Villian can either beat that ace or he can't, either way my cbet is going to put him in a tough spot.


I like to add that in the last 2 weeks, my biggest pots (both winning and losing) have been AA/KK vs 75/97 type. Great deepstack poker hand against the correct villian.

that is a very good point. if we hit our ace and the cbet gets called, the last hole card we would want is an ace with a deuce kicker.

note however that I put 75s on the top of my list

What, what? I thought you said it would be good "against his calling range"... meaning you thought KK, QQ, JJ might float the flop when an A comes out getting you value on your hand.

Now I'm confused.

it doesn't matter if we have an ace with an Axx board. Villian sees the ace, we see the ace if we bet he has to respect it and 1) he can either beat an ace (with either TPTK or Aces up), 2) or he has a monster draw that is close to even against a pair of aces.

So our cards don't matter, our position-initiative and board puts us on TPTK in the villians perspective.

75s
88
A2s
KJo.

Actually there's a chance I'd replace KJo with 72o for what it's worth. My opponent obviously has a big hand and I want to stack him, my top three are ideal in doing that.

88
A2s
75s
KJo

88 for the reasons already mentioned. Its fairly easy to play post flop. If we hit we are almost always good. If we miss...we cbet flop and are done unimproved.

I think A2s is also fairly easy to play post flop. We are looking for the flush/FD, 2 pair, trips, or a wheel. And if we flop 2P....AQ+ is likely to pay us off.

75s is very well disguised, but I really prefer to play small SC/suited gappers multiway not heads up. Even if we do pick up a good draw...say a FD....we might be against a bigger FD and getting not so great odds.

KJo is like always dominated. Even if we hit we are probably behind.

75,88,A2,KJ

KJ is well dominated by many hands in 3bet pots- should be at the bottom of everyone's list if u ask me

Great thread, op.

I don't know about KJ being dominated a lot. If we are the villain in the co, do we call the button's 3 bet with KQ if our read is that button is a solid aggressive player??

AK is a worry, but it is only one hand, made less likely by the fact that we have a king. The key to ranking KJ here to me seems to be how often KQ calls the 3 bet.

KJ has moderate of value against TT-. Although we're always in a tough spot and we'll win small pots and lose big pots.

A2 has a lot less value versus pairs. A2s is also often dominated. Wheel draw is unlikely and wont give us much action. We'll only get paid with a flush on this one

88 here has decent value heads up without hitting a set.

75s is a terrible hand HU, however if we hit, we're likely to see action with these hands and losing only small pots.

88, 75s, A2, KJ

+1

This is how I would rank them and basically why as well.


I also really agree with Berge that it does matter more than we'd like at 50NL and below.

75(s), 88, KJ, A2(s)

As far as I am concerned the only reason I am going to make this play is because I have put him on two big cards, TT+ or AK, AQ and I want to stack him if I hit is stronlgy.

75(s) would be the best hand that may hit me, miss him and keep my hand disguised untill I can get my money in.



88: Villian, if he is any good, may figure out after one c/bet check/call I may have a set and he may give up.

KJ(o) I may hit the str8 but lose to a larger str8 if he has AK, or AQ. or he has KK or JJ and backs into a boat

A2(s) doesn't hold much value heads up because once three suited cards come villian is done with hand