I have been losing a lot of stacks lately at micro getting drawn out on like the hand below. Should I be shoving the turn to try and stop the draws? Not sure if I am having really crappy variance with KK and AA but am almost scared to see them now. Asking here in case I am making a betting mistake by not shoving more with them.

Thanks for any advice


Ignition | No Limit Hold'em Cash - $0.02/$0.05 - 6 players
Hand #3432958232 - delivered by Pokeit

BTN Seat 5: $17.72 (354.4 bb)
CO Seat 4: $6.19 (123.8 bb)
MP Hero: $5.68 (113.6 bb)
UTG Seat 2: $4.85 (97 bb)
BB Seat 1: $6.44 (128.8 bb)
SB Seat 6: $3.22 (64.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.07) Hero (Hero) is MP with K♠ K♦
Seat 2 folds, Hero raises $0.12 to $0.17, Seat 4 calls $0.17, 3 players fold

Flop: J♣ 6♥ 5♦ ($0.41) (2 players)
Hero bets $0.41, Seat 4 calls $0.41

Turn: Q♥ ($1.23) (2 players)
Hero bets $1.23, Seat 4 calls $1.23

River: 9♠ ($3.69) (2 players)
Hero bets $3.69, Seat 4 raises $0.69 to $4.38, Hero calls $0.18

Final Pot: ($10.86 | rake $0.57) (2 players)
Seat 4 shows 8♥ 7♥ (a straight, Five to Nine) +$5.18
Hero shows K♠ K♦ (a pair of Kings) -$5.68

I don't really play NL5, except live and that is just insane.

KK is just a pair on this board, not a bullet proof vest of invincible.
Bet more pre flop and try to get in as much pre as possible. Try 4BB,5BB, limp/3bet. I don't know what works for NL5.

On to the post-flop action. What you want to do is exercise pot control. You want to play for big pot when you are likely ahead and small when you maybe behind. Can you see how you conveniently build up the pot for Villain to shove on the river. And as you are unlikely to improve on the river you don't want this.

Why do you bet the river? You are only blocking bluff shoves and no hand worse than you is going to call. This essentially makes your KK a bluff here. But KK is imo too strong for bluff hand in this spot, so you want to x/c.

Lets see how our river action might look like if we exercise pot control. River comes and pot is now around 1.6$, you have 4$ behind and V covers. V could have gotten here with Qx,Jx,6x,77,88,TT all of which you beat. See how our options look much better. We can bet or x/c and if V makes a crazy jam shove then we can just save 4$ for another day.

At micros. Most villains are not capable of such big bluffs. This makes them very exploitable, for when they go crazy, we fold. They almost exclusively 'have it'.

I belive you would be better off always folding in these aground spots. The few times you win will not cover the many times you lost.

I think you played the hand ok until the rvr. Alarm bells need to ring at this point. It's possibly the worst card in thd deck for you.

Pot size bet is not the only size you can bet. Did you know that?

I feel you. Micros are tough because generally they don't play poker, they gamble. Just have to adapt your play to your opponents.

However I'd love to see GTO explain this one, lol.


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Unless you know villain is a fish, you shouldn't build a big pot with just a pair



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First of all when you bet against draws your aim is not to make them fold. You want to make them pay, price them and then not pay their implied odds.

To improve play against draws watch the board carefuly, asses how many draws cca V can have, how strong they are. Every street watch for runouts that completed some draws.

Also look for weaker made hands that can call your valubets often most value is from such hands. Eg here Jhigh flop, then Q turn... what weaker made hands could call big river bet? Imo maybe AQ. How many AQ V has? Max 3 combos with BDFD otf. It means when you get value from 3combos V must have less than 3 stronger hands otr.
Always watch which weaker hands V can call otr it says which hands you can valuebet.

Unless villain is a fish you are value owning yourself with your bet sizing. Pretend you are in villains shoes facing the action you are producing. What hands would you have vs that sizing on all streets on that board? What types of hands could you call an effective river shove with when you got there?

First I like the pot size bets but then OTR I realized that you had no idea on why you were betting that much ( I believe that its because you're scared of being sucked out OTR).

You need to put ur Villian on a range of worse hands, in this case I see a very narrow range of hands calling again and which ones dont have us beat.

As described above, you only got 1pair OTR

Thanks, pot control is something I don't think about and need to learn. And I definitely overestimate KK, AA after the flop comes. Sadly the river wasn't a bluff, it was a tilt frustration bet after losing with KK about four times that day. Lesson learned. I hope. Thanks for the advice.

Thanks, I had snapped off a bluff earlier in the day, so wrongly assumed from there on everyone must be trying to bluff me. I have read a lot of advice about in micros if you are reraised you are almost always beatif you just have top pair. I review my hands on pokeit and see that when I do fold in these spots I am in fact beat 90% of the time. Just hard to be disciplined sometimes(-: Thanks

Good point, I admit I am lazy and just use the half pot and pot buttons. I will work on betting more at appropriate times. Thanks

Thanks I need work on building a big pot concept. I think I may be confusing it with making them pay to draw out concept that I may be confusing with limit poker? I will try and do some reading on pot control. Thanks

Thanks all this advice seems to be pointing me in the same direction, paying closer attention to the board and what my opponent likely has. I have been stuck in phase one of poker I think, focusing on my starting cards and not thinking through the rest of the hand more.

You are correct I really don't know why I was making pot sized bets, other than I thought I should be trying to protect my hand and the pot button is convenient. It's clear I am still playing checkers and you guys are playing chess. I will start thinking more about my bet sizing and what the villian may have more.

Can any of you let me know how you would have bet this hand?

Maybe raise to .25 pre. Pot size the flop. Half pot the turn and check the river? Do I call a river bet?

I picked two hands here. You might argue that you could play some of these better, but at least it illustrates the concept. This is NL25 and both players are at least 25$ deep.

In first hand V is passive on flop so we bet turn for value and check the river so we can call. I think it is the better play.

Preflop: ($0,35, 9 players) Hero is SB with A A
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0,75, 5 folds, Hero raises to $2,09, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1,34

Flop: Q 2 5 ($4,43, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks

Turn: 3 ($4,43, 2 players)
Hero bets $2,19, UTG+1 calls $2,19

River: T ($8,81, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks

Total Pot: $8,81
Hero shows A A (a pair of Aces)
UTG+1 mucks 4 4

Second hand we just try to get to the end cheaply. We call river here as well since we beat bunch of value bets like missed top pair combo draws and bluffs also.

Preflop: ($0,35, 9 players) Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $0,75, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0,75, 3 folds, BB calls $0,50

Flop: 8 6 7 ($2,35, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks

Turn: 3 ($2,35, 3 players)
BB bets $1,12, Hero calls $1,12, 1 fold

River: A ($4,59, 2 players)
BB bets $2,50, Hero calls $2,50

Total Pot: $9,59
BB shows 6 6 (three of a kind, Sixes)
Hero mucks K K

Hope this helps.

I dont think the firs hand is good example.It is missplayed imo.Unless your play is to c/r the flop then flop is cbet 100 % of the time imo and ap river is bet for value V probably have some weak hands that beats the bluffs so we dont expect him to ever bet the river unless he has AA beaten

They are examples of not going mental every time you have high PP:s. Which cbetting 100% of 3bet pots oop kind of is. What are you going to do if you get raised?

Imo we should go for 2 streets value at least in the first hand.
I like tfe flop check turn call in the H2 not so sure with river call.