SB,BB-losing with KQs,KJs,KTs,QJs - flat and 3b - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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SB,BB-losing with KQs,KJs,KTs,QJs - flat and 3b

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09-14-2019 , 04:28 PM

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

should i fold them?

what i found is whenever I 3bet or flat - flop comes like 732r or Axx - no draw no pair.. i am forced to fold to cbet or call flop and fold turn.

what to do?

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09-14-2019 , 04:54 PM

Zuko

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,356

they way you ask your question makes it very different to answer it.

You should ask a more specifc question focused on either preflop or postflop for a specific spot.

I can tell you though that you are supposed to lose money with a lot of those hands because you are in the blinds. when you are in the BB you can call any hand as long as you lose less than 1bb because you would lose that when folding.

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09-14-2019 , 05:07 PM

Tightnitreg1

Formerly NeedGTOfor2NL

Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 1,194

Would cbet both flops you mentioned

Ip that is, i dont 3bet these oop against that many opens

But yea threads kinda weird

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09-14-2019 , 10:20 PM

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

What I want to know is do u guys typically flat these hands from blinds or not?
Do you fold these PREFLOP?

KQs I am 3betting or ISOing anyday FWIW

These hands whiff a lot and I find it too nitty to fold and too spewy to bet

Hope the question is clear.

----------------------------------
I filtered these hands from SB and BB and found I am losing @ -7BB/100 over 256 hands

a)3bet =true

BTN opens or there are 1+ limpers - I 3bet these like below

A1

Poker Stars, $2/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $500 (100 bb)
BB: $386.07 (77.2 bb)
UTG: $461.31 (92.3 bb)
MP: $638.33 (127.7 bb)
CO: $253.35 (50.7 bb)
BTN: $376.62 (75.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

UTG calls $5, MP raises to $22, CO calls $22, BTN folds, Hero raises to $98, 3 folds, CO calls $76

Flop: ($228) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $155.35 and is all-in

Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $272.31 (136.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $200 (100 bb)
CO: $315.62 (157.8 bb)
BTN: $191.51 (95.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

CO folds, BTN raises to $8, SB folds, Hero raises to $25, BTN calls $17

Flop: ($51) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $24.19, BTN raises to $48.38, Hero calls $24.19

Turn: ($147.76) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $94

Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $204.33 (102.2 bb)
BB: $82.43 (41.2 bb)
MP: $189 (94.5 bb)
CO: $53.79 (26.9 bb)
BTN: $616.26 (308.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

MP folds, CO calls $2, BTN calls $2, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, BTN calls $8

Flop: ($24) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $12, Hero calls $12

Turn: ($48) 2

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $22, Hero folds

b) I flat call these - 3bet=false and called flop cbet

I flop these weak ass gutshots or draws that i never hit or whiff completely

B1

Poker Stars, $2/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $424.50 (84.9 bb)
Hero (BB): $624.30 (124.9 bb)
UTG: $785.32 (157.1 bb)
MP: $1,609.58 (321.9 bb)
CO: $295.05 (59 bb)
BTN: $261.06 (52.2 bb)

B2
Preflop: Hero is BB with T

2 folds, CO raises to $15, 2 folds, Hero calls $10

Flop: ($32) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $20.23, Hero calls $20.23

Turn: ($72.46) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $45.82, Hero calls $45.82

River: ($164.10) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $124

Poker Stars, $2/$5 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $963.60 (192.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $500 (100 bb)
UTG: $478 (95.6 bb)
MP: $623.09 (124.6 bb)
CO: $500 (100 bb)
BTN: $644.80 (129 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J

UTG folds, MP raises to $17, CO folds, BTN calls $17, SB calls $15, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($68) 4

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $40, 2 folds, Hero calls $40

Turn: ($148) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

River: ($148) T

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $190

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09-14-2019 , 10:31 PM

WorldzMine

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,604

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubakkur2

What I want to know is do u guys typically flat these hands from blinds or not?
Do you fold these PREFLOP?

Very high or 100% 3bets with these hands vs LP opens, calling some of the worse ones some percentage of the time, zero % folds. Mostly calling w/ some 3betting vs the earlier positions, zero folds to an open.

You're going to have to x/f or x/c one or two streets OOP depending on what you did pre. That's just OOP defense. Folding hands near the top of your range would just be lol bad in the bb.

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09-14-2019 , 10:51 PM

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldzMine

Very high or 100% 3bets with these hands vs LP opens, calling some of the worse ones some percentage of the time, zero % folds. Mostly calling w/ some 3betting vs the earlier positions, zero folds to an open.

You're going to have to x/f or x/c one or two streets OOP depending on what you did pre. That's just OOP defense. Folding hands near the top of your range would just be lol bad in the bb.

this is pretty much what i have done pre and post.
I have not won any of the hands and my red line has nosedived (which is why investigated SB and BB hands in the first place)

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09-14-2019 , 11:10 PM

Zuko

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,356

Quote:

I filtered these hands from SB and BB and found I am losing @ -7BB/100 over 256 hands

256 hands is not a very good sample.

when you fold in the BB you lose -100bb/100 . when you fold in the SB you lose -50bb/100. how does -7bb/100 sound now?

basically you are supposed to 3 bet these hands with a very high frequency… Please no calling in the SB

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09-15-2019 , 01:47 AM

dubakkur2

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuko

256 hands is not a very good sample.

when you fold in the BB you lose -100bb/100 . when you fold in the SB you lose -50bb/100. how does -7bb/100 sound now?

basically you are supposed to 3 bet these hands with a very high frequency… Please no calling in the SB

sounds lol
ok

is it a crime your red line nosediving when winning?

***********

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09-15-2019 , 01:53 AM

Zuko

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 2,356

stop your redline obsession lol

bro, what do you think happens when you post your blind and fold? red line goes down because you lose without showdown… everyone loses from the blinds. Worry about every individual decision and not your redline.

like hand A3 you probably wanna bet or x/f flop. but x/c KQ on 566 is probably not very good.

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