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QQ how to play? QQ how to play?

11-30-2007 , 02:09 PM
Party Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $173.76
CO: $663.62
BTN: $594.50
SB: $908.83
Hero (BB): $839.25
UTG: $1,317.40

Pre-Flop: Q Q dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG raises to $21, 2 folds, BTN raises to $63, SB folds, Hero calls $57, UTG calls $42

Flop: ($192) J 3 6 (3 Players)
Hero bets $130, UTG raises to $300, BTN calls $300, Hero folds

Turn: ($922) A (2 Players)
UTG bets $954.40 and is All-In, BTN calls $231.50 and is All-In

River: ($1,385) J (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $1,385 Pot ($3.50 Rake)

utg is playing 21/17/2.2/28 nick: Lady_Swan
BU 17/14/3.1/22 nick: SergeantSexy

i think BU is not raising the utg raiser light. so i descided just to call with my QQ. on the flop i am behind against KK+ and against JJ. i thought there was a good chance taking it down with a donk. with the plan to fold to a raise because if i got raised i am beat here most of the time i think? toughts?

preflop 4bet??? if not 4betet how to play?
QQ how to play? Quote
11-30-2007 , 02:11 PM
I fold preflop vs 17/14 3 betting an UTG raiser
QQ how to play? Quote
11-30-2007 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
I fold preflop vs 17/14 3 betting an UTG raiser
Yeah, seriously. There isn't a flop w/o a Q that we are going to feel comfortably with getting it in.
QQ how to play? Quote
11-30-2007 , 03:38 PM
Why are you donking the flop?
QQ how to play? Quote
12-03-2007 , 09:32 AM
Make easy flop fold or go set mining...the donk lead makes no sense
QQ how to play? Quote
12-03-2007 , 10:58 AM
Definitely fold preflop. Donking the flop is abysmal.
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 06:48 AM
SergeantSexy is a weak-tight regular, playing NL200. His 3bets usually mean strong holdings. But not only KK+ (Lady_Swan is a light-opener even UTG). It is really tough. But if Sergeant raises, Lady_Swan 3bets, then you should consider QQ as the nuts and 4bet/call ))
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 09:36 AM
Its a pretty close fold, if the players were a bit more aggro I would like a 4 bet to 135.
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 09:53 AM
I think this is a spot where you're best served to make a decision preflop about whether you're ahead of the 3-bet or not. If you are, reraise, and if you're not, fold. Here with the tight 3-bettor it seems like a fold. This isn't really a huge fold, either.
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 11:16 AM
I'd check too see what happends
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 11:19 AM
Everyone who said fold PF should turn in their testicles
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 11:46 AM
The donk lead reasoning here does not make much sense. Make a decision pre with regards to your plan for playing qq here against these 2 opponents.
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 11:52 AM
Swans UTG Raising Range: Approximately 13% of combos.
Assumption: Only Calls AA, KK to shove --> 0.9% of combos. Therefore calling 0.9/13=6.9% of time.
Equity with QQ: 18.3%

Seargant Sexy's Reraising Range: JJ+, AKo+, AQs+, 89s --> 3.3% of combos.
Assumption: Only Calls AA, KK, AKs --> 1.2% of combos. Therefore calling 1.2/3.3=36.4% of time
Equity with QQ: 27.2%

So rough approximation, we are getting called 43.3% of the time with about 24% equity.

Current Pot size: 21 + 63 = 84
Left to Shove: 600 (we're deeper with UTG, so actually a bit more)
Final Pot Size if Called: 1221. False assumption we are only getting called by one player.

P(Fold) = 1 - 43.3% = 56.7%

EV(Shove) = 0.567*84 + (1-0.567)(1221*0.24 - 600) = -85.29

So, getting it in preflop looks like it is a clear losing play. When we get called by UTG we lose even more than my model since he is deeper, and if they call with AKo, we don't gain anything because they are making a correct mathematical play given the pot size. Finally, sometimes they will both call with AA and KK, which is actually better than just one person calling with AA as our equity only goes down only slightly in a much bigger pot, but this is a super rare occurrence so whatever.

I'm not sure cold-calling here is profitable though. It seems like we're gonna be getting in a lot of trouble spots postflop. My standard would be to CC and chec the flop, folding to a bet on this flop. You tend to get a lot of respect and don't fear a free card that much. If it gets checked through lead the turn and hope to take it down.
QQ how to play? Quote
12-06-2007 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heresjohnny
Definitely fold preflop. Donking the flop is abysmal.
QFT. I'd rather 4bet it pre than coldcall then donk the flop.
QQ how to play? Quote

      
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