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QQ -- Betsizing

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05-28-2008 , 01:24 AM

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

villain is 27/22/3 TAG

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($77.55)
Button ($24.95)
SB ($31.90)
Hero ($23.60)
UTG ($34.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

.
1 fold, MP raises to $0.85, Button calls $0.85, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.75, MP calls $2.65, Button folds.

Flop: ($8.20) T

, 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP calls $5.

Turn: ($18.20) T

(2 players)
Hero bets $15.1 (All-In), MP calls $15.10.

any reason to slow down anywhere here? once he calls my 3bet and flop, I suspect his range is narrowed quite a bit... I tend to minimize AA and KK because he likely raises again being 3 handed and out of position... How much am i ahead of that he calls here normally?

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05-28-2008 , 01:30 AM

idcimallin

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 171

I don't think there's a reason to slow down. During my time in NL25, I haven't seen a full stack TAG slowplay KK/AA yet. I would try to play it goofy though by raising ~$5ish on the turn, making him think we'll fold, but obviously your play is fine.

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05-28-2008 , 01:42 AM

orlov

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,176

I check turn alot here since its dry board and he looks like the kinda guy thats gonna float and go bat**** insane when u start checking, also theirs like only 6rivercards your rly worried bout and if it goes check check u can still get all in by betting river

Last edited by orlov; 05-28-2008 at 01:48 AM.

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05-28-2008 , 01:44 AM

Paul McSwizzle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,531

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlov

wat do you mean when you say "you can still get all in by shoving river?"

isn't this true at any river in any hand?

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05-28-2008 , 01:49 AM

orlov

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,176

oh ya your rite I meant it somewhere long the lines of rivershove not being an overbet, edited post

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05-28-2008 , 01:54 AM

Genesis

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlov

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. Betting this turn will put a lot of pressure on lower pairs like 77-99 that peel the flop, but if you check I think they will often stab at this pot because they fear a ton of overs and this looks like a good spot to pressure you.

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05-28-2008 , 02:06 AM

King_S

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,199

this is a tough hand because villain is a TAG.

I'd check turn, maybe even folding to an AI.

his range is PP's or a T. It's all a matter of putting him on a hand.

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05-28-2008 , 02:23 AM

orlov

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,176

folding this is crazy

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05-28-2008 , 02:36 AM

DaycareInferno

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 18,285

you have to weight the fact that if you check the turn you're likely to lose a bet from JJ and maybe 99 if an AK or Q comes on the river. if none of those cards come, he'd have to be pretty ******ed to bet the river with a hand like that, but he might be more inclined to call with it than he would on the turn.

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05-28-2008 , 10:52 AM

#10

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaycareInferno

Yeah... this is what I concern myself with about a lot. Any bet pretty much pot commits me. But I find I can often get a bet called on the turn but not on the river.

I originally posted the hand becaue I was concerned I was overplaying a decent pair in a reraised pot. I was trying to put him on a decent range. I was starting to question if I got a little lucky here since I was really putting the bottom of his range as 1010. Since he's tag I tend to assume he's not as likly to be calling with low pps for set value since I'm not deepstacked. AK probably folds that flop.

I'm hoping for JJ or a tie really, no?

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05-28-2008 , 11:11 AM

#11

ajmargarine

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 21,228

I would bet $6 on the flop. It's a small thing but the range that we are trying to get value from, 99 and the like will call $5 or $6 so you get an extra 4bb's there. Turn, meh I think you can go either way based on feel, bet or check to induce. I probably bet it. Not folding obv, if he has a T, w/e. If he's got AA/KK, cooler.

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05-28-2008 , 11:25 AM

#12

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

I don't think this is a particularly deep hand so I'll post results.

RESULTS
Villain had JJ.

I can't help but think this was the bottom of his range that I get called on the turn. So in that sense I feel I got lucky.

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05-28-2008 , 11:56 AM

#13

orlov

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7,176

hes a 27/22, thats nowhere near tag and the kind of ******ed **** ive been called with by these guys when I 3bet them amazes me

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05-28-2008 , 12:24 PM

#14

craiggerz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,487

I don't think there's a big difference between checking the turn or betting but I like betting to keep the pressure on and most hands that call on the flop are going to be calling the turn also since no over-cards came and a big part of his range is pp's.

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05-28-2008 , 12:24 PM

#15

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmargarine

Yup.

The added advantage of a slightly bigger bet on the flop is it makes the turn all in easier for him to call with a marginal hand.

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05-28-2008 , 12:28 PM

#16

WhiteWolf

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,856

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurto

How much am i ahead of that he calls here normally?

Well, I sure hope you're not considering folding to a push if you check on the turn. That means you're paying off the cooler hands no matter what (because they will certainly bet the river). Taking that as a given, your thoughts should then turn to how you could best extract value from the hands that you do beat. I prefer putting it in myself (no free cards to AK), but I see merit to the checking-to-induce line.

Last edited by WhiteWolf; 05-28-2008 at 12:42 PM.

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05-28-2008 , 12:40 PM

#17

bwconvention

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 31

Raise to 10bb pf. save $1.25 , lead for 6 otf, you could check the turn, if he has a T, then he might check behind, then check call the river maybe save yourself 7-10 bucks if in fact he has ATs or something.

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