Villain is kind of a sucky reg, plays 20/14/5%3b. Has gotten a little fps'y vs me before. We haven't played enough deep for me to know his tendencies in spots like this. Do ya'll just fold turn?

PokerStars - $5 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $589.93
Hero (SB): $2,132.28
BB: $70.36
UTG: $307.80
MP: $232.94
CO: $1,368.00

Hero posts SB $2.50, BB posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: ($7.50) Hero has T T

fold, fold, CO raises to $15.00, fold, Hero calls $12.50, BB raises to $70.36 and is all-in, CO calls $55.36, Hero calls $55.36

Flop: ($211.08, 3 players) T 3 A
Hero checks, CO bets $135.00, Hero calls $135.00

Turn: ($481.08, 3 players) Q
Hero checks, CO bets $305.00, Hero calls $305.00

River: ($1091.08, 3 players) 7
Hero checks, CO bets $857.64 and is all-in,

Well if you think he plays AQ like this snap it off, otherwise I guess you can fold somewhere? His range based on pre and flop is probably AA AQ AK, maybe AT, especially ATs sometimes (should fold pre probably). Dunno if people bluff here, and it's hard for him to have many bluffs since he should be folding so much of his range pre + and your range should look pretty strong.

why not raise the flop oj?

Meh he never has KJ, AQ is biggest part of his range, cawl

yeah this seems like a puke fold vs described villain

I totally disagree with this.

he shouldnt have KJ often if ever considering the BB shove. With the dry side pot on the flop there has to be some small % of the time he checks back AA, and a decent % he checks back QQ since there really isn't much reason to bet for value/protection based on the third player in the hand. I guess judes range contains a lot more draws based on the pf action than villains, so there is some reason to bet for value expecting to not always get a fold. But he's got to at least consider checking back to induce/try to cooler someone as aggressive as OJ.

So I think it's got to be a call. AQ/ATs make as much sense as AA and QQ, and he has to have some bluffs in his range.

I think I need more of a read to fold. It's kind of gross though.

He should never have KJ, I mean I (not bragging here) probably understand <20BB stack play better than most cash regs since I play sngs/mtts etc but I feel KJ is such a clear fold that even regs who aren't great with these spots will fold it all the time.

Maybe AQ isn't the biggest part of his range post depending if he value bets it cause lol_he's got two pair. It probably is the most likely hand based on pre though (including discounting AK and also AQ being more combos than AA etc)

[QUOTE=OMGClayDol;33428095]He should never have KJ, I mean I (not bragging here) probably understand <20BB stack play better than most cash regs since I play sngs/mtts etc but I feel KJ is such a clear fold that even regs who aren't great with these spots will fold it all the time.

Maybe AQ isn't the biggest part of his range post depending if he value bets it cause lol_he's got two pair. It probably is the most likely hand based on pre though (including discounting AK and also AQ being more combos than AA etc)[/QUOTE/]

suprised at this.

BB could be sqz jamming insanely wide (and maybe rightly if people are snap folding KJ??...), oj is much more likely to play faceup postflop and he has a reaonable price given just how short shorty is.

also dont like raising flop, regardless turn and river are puke.

I mean maybe not SUCH a clear fold but poker stove a reasonable range. Depends on the jammer too I guess, some randoms show up with 80% others are like 15% etc. Depends a bit about how often op folds, also Kjss is the only hands that could maybe bet flop. Betting with any other kj is super terrible.

yeah i agree on the flop play, pre id be amazed if KJ wasnt a fine call v 80% of these monkeys.

I'd definitely consider kjs a fold pre, specifically with OJ behind. Otf I wouldn't expect him to bet qq, and as people have said, more combos of aq than aa. Fairly gross spot but as aq is his most likely hand I don't think we can fold.

dont you think he would 4bet AA/QQ?

I really don't. Just pointing out also that I have the absolute tip top of my range here (I suppose besides KJ). So top of range = call?

Well as he has very few bluffs due to pre and his stats, I don't think being at the top of your range matters too much, more so that he'll happily jam aq after you (correctly) take the calling line.

pretty flawed logic in a spot like this versus the described villain. not even remotely worried about being exploitable vs this guy this deep, i just dont think hes good enough to do it

edit- how often can villain have 33? assuming he can show up with 3s, and giving him no bluffing range (seems pretty reasonable given description)- he can have 3 combos aa 3 combos 33 3 combos qq, 4 combos kjs, 9 combos AQ (someone correct me if ive messed up somewhere here)

I think assuming he plays QQ and KJs like this (aside from KsJs) every time is ambitious, so that being said they should be discounted atleast somewhat... that being said were left with a range of value hands that we are actually doing pretty well against combinatorically speaking and not to mention:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

66 games 0.001 secs 66,000 games/sec

Board: As Ts 3c Qc 7h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.455% 45.45% 00.00% 30 0.00 { AA, QQ, 33, AQs, KJs, AQo }
Hand 1: 54.545% 54.55% 00.00% 36 0.00 { TT }


After more though this is a pretty trivial call

I don't understand why everyone's discounting KJss for villain? It might be a slightly bad play to call pre, but "sucky regs" do stupid stuff all the time. In addition, depending on short villain it might very well be a good call in his spot.

i definitely dont think kjs is a bad call nor out of villains range. i agree kjo probably is

Would actually feel pretty good about calling, would never consider folding. Even discounting bluffs were ahead of his value jams.

All of us would check back flop w/ QQ in villains shoes right?

Yea I guess call, you need 30.6% to break even on river

If his value range is AA + KsJs that's 4 combos, so he only needs 2 combos of AQ (for example the combos of AQs = 2) for it to be a call.
I.e. if he plays AQ 2/9 times or more it's a call (and this ignores possibility he plays 33 like this say 1/3 times)

Taking this line and folding should be punishable by law. Image post ftw

could not agree more.

Villain with described stats IMO is checking QQ back on this flop especially OOP. KJo and KJss I would probably exclude from his range although others agree otherwise. Even worst case scenario with angeles stove ranges it still makes it a call

I'm surprised more isn't said about villian having 333 enough for it to be a big factor. We don't know how often villian will 4-bet AA/QQ, being deeper esp, so you'd have to discount 33 a lot more for that holding alone to make the river close - even if villian never bluffs.

interesting spot! how do you think villain should play in this spot?
betting the nuts (AA, TT, AK) and hands like jj/qq/weakest aces as bluffs on the flop?

the q on the turn is obv very bad here, but i doubt this can be folded as villain might just not know what to do, have aq or something.