PAHWM - NL50 - KJs OTB against 2+2er - Page 4 - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash

PAHWM - NL50 - KJs OTB against 2+2er

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 4 of 4

1 2 3 4

Page 4 of 4

1 2 3 4

07-08-2009 , 02:02 PM

#76

jizzlobber

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by imfromsweden

FWIW I'm the villain. Take whatever info or read you have on me before making a decision.

(and checking back flop is BAD)

How is checking the flop back bad? It is not a super wet flop. By betting the flop and calling your check raise, the hero has pretty much committed himself to the pot with any turn action. It's not like the stack sizes are so big that they allow for any sophisticated turn or river play. Meta game notwithstanding, stacking off with top pair decent kicker is not my idea of winning poker.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:05 PM

#77

RailHeaven

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by imfromsweden

Okey, he might call with the random Tx, but a large part of his range still contains of Kx.

The point I was making; Since he called my check/raise, he's not gonna fold to a river bet, especially since I checked turn.

I agree he wont fold to a normal sized river bet. Made that comment about you might bluff the river if he checked the turn, due to him saying you were spewy and thinking you would be giving him a larger range after bet/calling.

So since you did think he had mainly Kx in his range on the turn, were you planning to check/shove if he bet "to protect from the draws"?

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:07 PM

#78

brocksavage1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by jizzlobber

Checking the flop is not terrible, but you can bet for value because there are worse hands that will call your bet. I bet tons of K high flops HU with a lot hands against a thinking player in LP/BB battles that I'm almost always betting here on this type of board.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:11 PM

#79

KurtSF

Lucky Number Seven

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16,471

Quote:

Originally Posted by imfromsweden

Ah, so the turn checked through?

Yes, you can't bluff the river then. You can try to pick him off though, or just straight vbet.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:18 PM

#80

brocksavage1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtSF

You can try to pick him off though, or just straight vbet.

If we have a big hand I'd def. lead the river for value. I think the hero chks back the river a ton here, but can a small bet with Kx.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:21 PM

#81

imfromsweden

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,152

Right, but what do you think JLBoorlo should do on the turn, giving our history?

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:24 PM

#82

jizzlobber

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocksavage1

The problem with betting for value on the flop is that when you are ahead you will probably only get one or two bets out of him. When you are behind you could very easily lose your stack. Since you will only get one or two bets when ahead, wouldn' it be better to bet the turn where your chances of getting stacked are smaller?

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:27 PM

#83

brocksavage1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by jizzlobber

How do we get stacked exactly?

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:32 PM

#84

KurtSF

Lucky Number Seven

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16,471

Quote:

Originally Posted by imfromsweden

Right, but what do you think JLBoorlo should do on the turn, giving our history?

As I said above, my gut is telling me to check back, end the BS and showdown, but my head is telling me that $14/call is flipping for stacks and (despite the variance) might be better.

Truth be told, I'm inherently risk averse and I probably check the turn, but I'm not convinced that's best.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:35 PM

#85

brocksavage1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtSF

+1. I like the fact we have SD value, but I think the villain is c/r bluffing the turn here a lot, so b/c could def. bet better.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 02:56 PM

#86

SammyG-SD

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 12,600

can you PM the villain name to me? I wonder if I have the same read on him.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 03:15 PM

#87

jizzlobber

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocksavage1

How do we get stacked exactly?

Take a look at this hand. Doesn't it look like stacks will go in? $36 pot on turn after hero bets $9. He has $32 left and will be getting more than 2 to 1 on a shove so he pretty much has to call no matter what. If he had checked the flop, the pot would have been around $15 after turn action and he would have been able to play poker on the river.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 03:48 PM

#88

brocksavage1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by jizzlobber

You're assuming the villian c/r all of the time.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 03:51 PM

#89

JLBorloo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,222

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyG-SD

can you PM the villain name to me? I wonder if I have the same read on him.

it was imfromsweden (he outed himself ITT)

Quote

07-08-2009 , 03:56 PM

#90

jizzlobber

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocksavage1

You're assuming the villian c/r all of the time.

Well ya, villain is OOP. His natural line is to check raise with a monster.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 03:59 PM

#91

brocksavage1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12,587

Quote:

Originally Posted by jizzlobber

Well ya, villain is OOP. His natural line is to check raise with a monster.

Or c/c with lots of other stuff b/c he knows we fire a big % of our range on this flop.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 04:23 PM

#92

KurtSF

Lucky Number Seven

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16,471

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocksavage1

Or c/c with lots of other stuff b/c he knows we fire a big % of our range on this flop.

I have used MS Paint to imagineer Villain's entire range on the flop, and annotated it with what I expect is their thought process and action in response to our cbet.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 05:01 PM

#93

JLBorloo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,222

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtSF

I have used MS Paint to imagineer Villain's entire range on the flop, and annotated it with what I expect is their thought process and action in response to our cbet.

now this is pure awesomeness Kurt and definitely right to me.
actually I dont think he would turn random pair into a bluff though.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 05:08 PM

#94

KurtSF

Lucky Number Seven

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16,471

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLBorloo

actually I dont think he would turn random pair into a bluff though.

Think of is at reason to bet #3, collecting dead money. He doesn't want any more cards to come.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 05:10 PM

#95

SammyG-SD

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 12,600

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLBorloo

it was imfromsweden (he outed himself ITT)

bet 1.1 x the pot on the turn and call his bluff shove.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 06:30 PM

#96

imfromsweden

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 10,152

Right, the more I think about it, the more I think JLBoorlo should check back turn.

Reason is: I check/raised flop, what hands would I do that with? Basiclly air, and monsters. My range is polarized; I wouldn't ever C/R JTs.

Air is more likely since I checked turn, why would I do that with a made hand? The risk is too big you will check back.

But If I have air, I won't call a turn bet anyway! And If I have a monster, planning to check/shove, it's better to check back.

I can see reasons for betting turn also though, such as we're very likely to have the best hand, but we certinly don't want him (me) to suck out on us.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 07:37 PM

#97

KurtSF

Lucky Number Seven

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16,471

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLBorloo

actually I dont think he would turn random pair into a bluff though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtSF

Think of is at reason to bet #3, collecting dead money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by imfromsweden

Reason is: I check/raised flop, what hands would I do that with? Basiclly air, and monsters. My range is polarized

Ah, I was wrong.

Quote

07-08-2009 , 08:58 PM

#98

La Ultima Cerveca

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by imfromsweden

-you still have some hands w equity in your range and we can call a shove,betting is fine.also we dont gain anything from checking back since you are never bluffing.maybe you are evcen calling worse.im def betting the turn

Quote

07-09-2009 , 03:19 PM

#99

KurtSF

Lucky Number Seven

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 16,471

Next street...?

Quote

Page 4 of 4

First

1 2 3 4

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 4 of 4

First

1 2 3 4

Last