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PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop

01-29-2010 , 09:41 AM
Been playing but not posting much for the last few months so this is kind of a return hand.

This is a hand that I am more interested in the concept than the results. There is the potential of playing it perfectly and losing a lot of chips while alsso playing it totally wrong and winning a lot so I am interested on the WHY more than the WHAT TO DO.

This happened last night at a rush table so of course no reads. Been thinking about it a lot and I think flush or straight draws are a weakness of mine (especially oop).


Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $10.00
CO: $21.97
BTN: $23.51
SB: $7.31
BB: $39.55
UTG: $10.66
UTG+1: $12.71
Hero (UTG+2): $7.90
MP1: $9.55

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+2 with J Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, CO calls $0.30, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 5 K T (2 players)

What's next? Why? If a bet, how much?
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 10:03 AM
Reads on villians would be extremely helpful and is crucial in decision making.

In general im making it 4x PF and c-betting this flop 100%.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 10:18 AM
You still have 42% equity against KK. I would put in a bet of 80-90% of the pot and 3-bet shove if villain raises. I would check call the turn depending on price and any reads on villain. You don't make the nut flush of course with any club, but you do make the nuts with any A or 9, so you're really hoping for the straight. Flush draws are usually more apparent, like it is easier to see 3 clubs than 9TK on the board. I bet .60.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie87
Reads on villians would be extremely helpful and is crucial in decision making.

In general im making it 4x PF and c-betting this flop 100%.
It's rush poker, there are no reads because you play 1 hand then get a new table as soon as you fold. Why c-bet, and how much? I am looking for some deeper information than that.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:03 AM
With an OESFD you should be ~potting/3betting this flop. Against most opponents you want to play your big draws fast. Considering you only have ~80bb's I'm not sure how else you'd play it.

We have tons of equity unless villain holds something like AcXc, and even then we have decent if not great equity to be stacking here with 80bb's.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:04 AM
Bet the flop with the intention of getting it in.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:15 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but OP should be buying in full in the first place?
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:31 AM
Buy in full, C-bet the flop 60-70c
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spysteve
Correct me if I'm wrong but OP should be buying in full in the first place?
lol, thanks for adding great info to the discussion. Sometimes you lose and hand and don't reload before the next hand.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:35 AM
Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $10.00
CO: $21.97
BTN: $23.51
SB: $7.31
BB: $39.55
UTG: $10.66
UTG+1: $12.71
Hero (UTG+2): $7.90
MP1: $9.55

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+2 with J Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, CO calls $0.30, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 5 K T (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, CO raises to $1.95

Now...Do we look to get it in or slow down? Can't see a fold here ever.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkost
lol, thanks for adding great info to the discussion. Sometimes you lose and hand and don't reload before the next hand.
You can choose to auto- top up to the full amount if you ever lose a hand. That is definately the best thing to do so you don't have waste time topping up yourself.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:39 AM
I think with your stack size in this hand you have to choose to shove now or fold the flop. You cannot call off $2 from your $7 stack and then fold to a blank turn. You are OOP and if you check the turn he is 100% going to bet at you again.

Personally I just shove over the top.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:41 AM
Buy in full. Turn on auto reload.

C-bet .65. You are ahead of everything but a set, and even then you have Huge equity. Since you are ahead, you want to get as much money in as you can on the flop, as a brick cuts your equity in half. You want to bet close to pot to build equity for when you hit, for value, and for fold equity. Even though you are ahead, it is never bad to take down a pot when you don't have a made hand.

If you get raised, then shove.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:43 AM
I would get it in now, if you hit on the turn, he could slow down or stop entirely and if you don't hit, he continues and you are in a bad spot.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:43 AM
OK, now that they raised you up, shove. Your stack size is actually just about perfect in this situation. At this point there is NO hand the villan can reasonably have that you don't have the proper odds to get all in with due to all the dead money.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:43 AM
+1 to the auto top-off. Under options. Turn it on.

You are never, never folding here for 80bb's. OOP you need to get this in now.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:51 AM
Cbet more and ship it in over his raise. You've still got over 40% equity vs the very top of his range, and he could have a lot of semi-bluffs in there that you're actually ahead of, plus a small amount of FE.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 11:58 AM
Cbet 3/4 on flop, shove over the raise.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 12:01 PM
WTF is rush poker?

C-betting for value with the intention of 3-Betting all-in if raised, as mentioned we have about 45% equity vs a set and obviously more vs less.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stranglylucid

C-bet .65. You are ahead of everything but a set, and even then you have Huge equity. Since you are ahead, you want to get as much money in as you can on the flop, as a brick cuts your equity in half. You want to bet close to pot to build equity for when you hit, for value, and for fold equity. Even though you are ahead, it is never bad to take down a pot when you don't have a made hand.
This was my thought. Part of the reason I play these hands is to take down some on the flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saleens281sc
I would get it in now, if you hit on the turn, he could slow down or stop entirely and if you don't hit, he continues and you are in a bad spot.
This too. If I call, how do I know I will get any action after my draws come in. Plus, do I call a turn bet on a blank? don't think I can do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stranglylucid
OK, now that they raised you up, shove. Your stack size is actually just about perfect in this situation. At this point there is NO hand the villan can reasonably have that you don't have the proper odds to get all in with due to all the dead money.
This came to mind also. Vs a set I am drawing to 9 clubs and 6 straight cards so 15 gives me about 45% equity with only about 5.50 left and the final pot will be almost $15, i agree. I figured in the worst case spot, I am still best to shove. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerRon247
Cbet more and ship it in over his raise. You've still got over 40% equity vs the very top of his range, and he could have a lot of semi-bluffs in there that you're actually ahead of, plus a small amount of FE.
I cbet small because I wanted him to think it missed me so I could shove. As mentioned above at worst I am 45% but you hit it on the head, I may not have a lot of FE but at least 5% to be a toss.

Thanks. Glad to see my thought process wasn't totally off. Just wasn't sure if I wanted to be stacking with draws, even is it was a double draw.

I couldn't find any other way to play it, but I'm not the smartest so figured I would ask.

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $10.00
CO: $21.97
BTN: $23.51
SB: $7.31
BB: $39.55
UTG: $10.66
UTG+1: $12.71
Hero (UTG+2): $7.90
MP1: $9.55

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+2 with J Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, CO calls $0.30, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 5 K T (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, CO raises to $1.95, Hero raises to $7.60 all in, CO calls $5.65

Turn: ($15.95) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($15.95) 5 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $15.95
CO shows 5d 5c (four of a kind, Fives)
Hero shows Jc Qc (a straight, King high)
CO wins $14.89
(Rake: $1.06)
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote
01-29-2010 , 12:09 PM
You played this fine, especially since you were only 80bb.

Buy-in for full.
PAHWM - 10NL OESFD on flop Quote

      
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