I have a general question about overbets. In a live game, I recently called one. The prudent course would have been to fold, but the villain was extremely loose and aggressive. I felt that he could be bluffing, or could be betting with as little as TPTK.

Usually I'll fold; but sometimes I've won, other times I've lost in these situations. The result really isn't important. What is important is to think correct thoughts at the table. Any comments?

in b4 culinary advice

Overbetting is an almost purely psychological play and requires good reads and leveling to use properly otherwise it's probably a huge leak.


See these two videos to know why Tom Dwan is awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hloIyFK5S0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg0kd08JI_M

Laak is incredible – one of the world-class players. Yet Dwan successfully used the overbet for two opposite purposes against him. I'm in awe. Thanks for sharing, Way.

As far as I can tell, you're saying that playing against an overbet (or placing an overbet) is so clear-cut that you just follow the recipe, and play the same way every time. However, Way's post (below) proves that's just not the case.

If you think there is a recipe, I for one would be interested if you'd share what it is.

I guess the recipe would be to always fold a non-nut hand. Why take a chance on getting crushed? On the other hand, perhaps we should attempt to play a more thoughtful game.

That was not my point.

What I was trying to say is that you raised no real question, you just wanted us to tell you how you should proceed against an overbet. And we just can't tell you how you should "normally" proceed against an overbet because there are a ton of stuff we have to take into consideration. Size of the pot, villain's tendencies, board, history, your hand and so on.

So we can't just tell you "always call", "always fold", "call when draws missed" etc.

In your post you said you once called an overbet in a live game, than the other times you called you lost some and you won some. You asked as to comment this...what are you expecting us to say exactly?

And about Way's post, those videos might be nice to watch but don't expect to learn a lot from them. That's just a total different game.

Now, if you really want to learn how to play against or how to apply an overbet, try posting some hands and get some real discussion from that point on.

Now I understand. I'll do as you suggest. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Not everyone is an Isildur

I don't overbet very often online but I over bet quite often in 1/2 NL and 2/5 NL live. You can pick out the nits easily...even people who will fold top pair good kicker on a rainbow board to a big over bet. People online don't really look at it as money because most play more within their bankroll, but in live that is a diff. story.

You beat me to the punch

Generally in live poker - if someone overbets, it's almost 95% of the time = nuts. So unless you got a good read on the person - I'd tend to make the fold. Also, overbets tend to be either the nuts or bluff.

I thought you were talking about certain cold meats...

C'mon, Donk! Probably less than a week ago, I was telling you how much I appreciate your posts on 2p2. And this is the gem you have for me???!!!

I hope you can tell I'm joshing with you. Besides, Luis made the point.

I have a missed draw..lets over-shove-bluff the river

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - http://www.handconver...
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $46.14
UTG+2: $19.79
MP1: $26.82
MP2: $12.85
CO: $19.43
Hero (BTN): $58.91
SB: $25.77
BB: $25.00
UTG: $31.46

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with T T
UTG raises to $0.75, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.85) 3 2 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.35) 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75

River: ($9.85) T (2 players)
UTG bets $4.00, Hero raises to $54.16, UTG calls $22.71 all in

Final Pot: $63.27
Hero shows T T
UTG shows 8 8
Hero wins $61.27
(Rake: $2.00)


oops I lied.

67 missed?

That's my understanding, also. I wonder why no one else mentioned it. I believe that if the overbet is on the flop or turn, it may be the nuts (or close to it), but it could be vulnerable.

For example, someone flops Broadway, but there's a possible flush draw. Anyone with that draw lacks the pot odds to call. (A smaller bet to say 2/3 of the pot would also deprive them of the odds, though.)

An overbet is generally an indicator of great strength or extreme weakness.

Overbet is best used when villains have an inelastic calling range (I might be misusing the word here but w/e) Where it doesn't matter how big you bet they are going to call. A good example of this would be 9 9 on a A 9 3 A 2 against a fishy opponent if he has an ace he's not folding, if he has a flush he's not folding, but we're also not getting called by much else so I can see an overbet being a good value strat here.

I was just thinking about this the other day . Glad to see it being discussed . My thoughts were that there has to be some kind of board texture that you can tell your opponent has to have second or third nuts and that is his most likely hand , you can overshove the river for value . I just couldn't picture the right spots . Got any more examples ?

Well played.

Thanks for saying you lied. Otherwise I'd be flabbergasted.

The hero wouldn't have bluffed (with the huge overbet) when his hand had showdown value (top set). And the villain actually called all in with 7 4. lol.

Nice post.

I've played poker for enough decades that you'd think I could have thought of that. Never did. But I won't forget it. Thanks a lot.

As Luis said, we'll have to post some hands. But there are some excellent points made in this thread.

very good point about the inelastic calling range - I agree with the overbet there - especially live who is folding the ace or flush especially?

Welcome to 2p2, Chillinwithjc. Be sure to check out the Concept of the Week (CotW) which is a sticky on this forum.

Thanks for your input.