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Open Ended Donkey Call Open Ended Donkey Call

09-10-2016 , 08:58 PM
Notes: been completely hit by the deck so have a very loose image after a few orbits yet I haven't showndown with less than a set

The few hands sb has played he hasn't seen a single showdown and while he's clearly uber selective with his hands he has shown that he'll give up on a hand very quickly if he's reraised - very afraid of sets/two pair etc.

I'd been raising his blinds each orbit, this is not only first time he didn't fold but actually first time in our entire history he 3bets so he clearly has a monster but I got 8T and position so yolo.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 119.4 BB (VPIP: 20.59, PFR: 16.42, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 484)
UTG: 101.6 BB (VPIP: 15.75, PFR: 12.92, 3Bet Preflop: 7.24, Hands: 571)
UTG+1: 238.4 BB (VPIP: 26.02, PFR: 14.91, 3Bet Preflop: 4.38, Hands: 374)
MP: 117.6 BB (VPIP: 12.77, PFR: 10.81, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 191)
Hero (CO): 159 BB
BTN: 112 BB (VPIP: 41.67, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
SB: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 7.50, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 81)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8 T

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19 BB, 2 players) 7 3 9
SB bets 10 BB, Hero raises to 35.2 BB, SB raises to 91.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 56.2 BB

Now given his image and how aggressively he's played this preflop and on flop, I think it's very safe to remove underpairs, sets, two pairs and bluffs and thus this is now a pretty simple decision of can I outdraw his overpair for about a 1/3 chance to win.

So there is 19 big blinds in preflop, with 126.6 more for a total of 145.6 big blinds and I need to call 56.2. So this looks pretty standard to call.

Afterwards a "microstakes pro" kept berating and calling me a donkey that didn't understand pot odds and while I can't defend my actions that led me to that point, once I got there I had to make the call.

Thoughts?

Spoiler:

Turn: (201.8 BB, 2 players) 6

River: (201.8 BB, 2 players) 5

SB shows K K (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 83%, Flop 66%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows 8 T (Straight, Ten High)
(Pre 17%, Flop 34%, Turn 100%)
Hero wins 193.4 BB
Open Ended Donkey Call Quote
09-11-2016 , 08:26 AM
Terrible. Every decision you made was the worst one.

Then again you based your call on position and "yolo" so yeah. Good luck.
Open Ended Donkey Call Quote
09-11-2016 , 10:36 AM
really you ****ed up with your raise, you comitted yourself knowing you are beat. if you raised like 22 and not 35 you put less than 1/3 of your effective stack to acheive the same goal (+ the free card play to the river) and you can still fold a little bit easier if you get reraised, and this is where your semi bluff ends if you get reraised.

And because you know this guy is a nit and all you said about the 3bet orbits and all that is bull****, it is just a nit, you show some patience and try to outdraw him (his bet flop is too small, he could check turn or whatever) so just call to outdraw him you have great implied odds, this the perfect spot where a call is stronger than a raise...

So if you want to yolo these hands and have that style you have to know how to play them, vs nit how to outdraw and get paied, semi bluff at the right timings not when you know he has premiums and he wont fold wtf. mistakes like these will cost you a lot on the long run, giving nit action without a real hand it is suicide brooooo
Open Ended Donkey Call Quote
09-11-2016 , 11:09 AM
Technically you have the odds once all the money is in but you didn't have to put all that money in to begin with. The bottom line is you committed 100bb with only 8 outs. Generally speaking it isn't good poker to commit 100bb when you know you're a clear underdog.


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Open Ended Donkey Call Quote
09-11-2016 , 11:40 AM
Thanks for the input guys, really appreciate it. I did feel I had a 20-40% chance he folded thinking I had a set rather than yolo cards - don't know if that makes it any better though.
Open Ended Donkey Call Quote
09-11-2016 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
Thanks for the input guys, really appreciate it. I did feel I had a 20-40% chance he folded thinking I had a set rather than yolo cards - don't know if that makes it any better though.

usually here you should have like around that equity + find some more fold equity to add to you value equity so that you come to 50%, in this case you had non of the fold equity as you were the caller, it is a tricky thing post flop man

even if you try to justify with a loose image etc it is waaay too loose to do this in passive way, you should go aggressive more and land the shots correctly and not call all ins like this with this hand, land the all ins and dont call them...
Open Ended Donkey Call Quote
09-12-2016 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickroll
Thanks for the input guys, really appreciate it. I did feel I had a 20-40% chance he folded thinking I had a set rather than yolo cards - don't know if that makes it any better though.
Nope, it doesn't lol.

If he is as tight as you say he is, then he is probably paying attention to the hands he plays and I'm going to give villain the benefit of the doubt for being moderately smart.

That brings the following point to mind: why would anyone raise a set here who actually had a set?

Perhaps you're mixing up your play, but seriously, even if he does think you have a set, he's going to yolo it in the middle with the OP, assuming that you could be trying to get him to lay down AK because he only plays big cards, and obviously for the sheer fact that he has an actual big pair.

A flat call is a lot scarier to a tight player than a reraise at this point in the hand, because it gives them a bit of the "what the heck does this guy have" syndrome. Regardless of whether or not you hit your money card on the turn, you're going to find out some information about his hand based on whether he cbets and the size of that bet.

If you're willing to commit your stack to a semi bluff, then you should be willing to wait for a turn card and then blast away (assuming you don't catch your straight). Its going to make a tight opponent think a lot harder when you push it allin on the turn, as opposed to raising the flop.
Open Ended Donkey Call Quote

      
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