**Official uNL Microbrew Pt 3 - March 25** - Page 42 - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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**Official uNL Microbrew Pt 3 - March 25**

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03-27-2008 , 09:21 AM

#1026

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by whyzze

yes...if u plan on folding to a shove u are better off doing this with 72o.

is it really?
I fold there all the time, because my squeeze is rather a vbet.

03-27-2008 , 09:25 AM

#1027

n4rf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

is it really?
I fold there all the time, because my squeeze is rather a vbet.

Assuming you do this against the right villains (because you prob shouldn't be squeezing a 12/10 villain UTG) you're not as big of a dog as you think so. A shove over is AK a lot of the times and for me that's enough to call.

03-27-2008 , 09:30 AM

#1028

Spurious

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Ok serious question:
Whenever I got AK or QQ and shove, they got KK or AA...
Why does everyone say they shove AK preflop all the time?

03-27-2008 , 09:30 AM

#1029

PJo336

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

im awake again

03-27-2008 , 09:35 AM

#1030

kazana

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,658

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

Ok serious question:
Whenever I got AK or QQ and shove, they got KK or AA...
Why does everyone say they shove AK preflop all the time?

i've had enough people show up with TT-QQ and even AQ/AJ/KQ/meowchow.
other than that, if they fold any pp to ur shove it's good4u.

if you only get called by KK/AA you're maybe not aggro enough.

03-27-2008 , 09:39 AM

#1031

whyzze

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,266

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

is it really?
I fold there all the time, because my squeeze is rather a vbet.

if u are folding to a shove...what hands are u valuebetting? lower pps?

03-27-2008 , 09:47 AM

#1032

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by whyzze

if u are folding to a shove...what hands are u valuebetting? lower pps?

yes lower PPs, good aces and stuff
I mean when we 3bet the first time, we do it for value, because we dont have information that his hand is stronger than ours, now he 4bets, we got more information and we can fold, because he has us crushed!

03-27-2008 , 09:50 AM

#1033

Gelford

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

Ok serious question:
Whenever I got AK or QQ and shove, they got KK or AA...
Why does everyone say they shove AK preflop all the time?

Because either:

1. Your sample size is too small or

2. Most people who say this are playing non-uNL stakes.

At 50NL I might and might not fold this ... Mostly I'd felt it ... but it is player dependent.

At 200NL there is no way you are prying JJ out of my hands in that situation and I'm taking it to the felt like always ! (Well the player pool against whom I'd fold this is counted on the fingers of one hand)

03-27-2008 , 09:53 AM

#1034

whyzze

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gelford

Because either:

2. Most people who say this are playing non-uNL stakes.

At 200NL there is no way you are prying JJ out of my hands in that situation and I'm taking it to the felt like always ! (Well the player pool against whom I'd fold this is counted on the fingers of one hand)

pretty much. I try and tone it down for uNL stuff. But i constantly find myself aipf w/ AQ/TT/99 etc and well ahead of villian.

Last edited by whyzze; 03-27-2008 at 09:54 AM. Reason: but i play the HUs

03-27-2008 , 09:54 AM

#1035

Spurious

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Yeah ok, this might be the case at NL200, and to some extend at NL100, but when giving this advice in the micro forum, it's rather stupid, because villains wont think on 2nd level, and they rather call 3bets with QQ and AK and looking for a safe flop rather than 4betting AI for FE and stuff like that.

03-27-2008 , 09:55 AM

#1036

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by whyzze

pretty much. I try and tone it down for uNL stuff. But i constantly find myself aipf w/ AQ/TT/99 etc and well ahead of villian.

So villain will call you with 88?

03-27-2008 , 09:57 AM

#1037

whyzze

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

getting it AIPF with AK/QQ or any worse hand is not about FE or safe flops...its about maximizing EV against villians range. Alot of them are gonna be kinda nitty...but usually your stats should give you a decent picture of what you should and shouldn't felt preflop. Obv if you are a 16/12 then JJ probably isn't the best thing to felt against someone who is 'aware'

03-27-2008 , 09:59 AM

#1038

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by whyzze

How many people are aware of that at NL50?
Not many...
I play 24/20, but does that mean I could felt JJ pf and be expected to get called by TT or AQ when I shove?
I 4bet JJ+ and AK from time to time, but fold often against a push (might be a leak but not so sure).

03-27-2008 , 10:02 AM

#1039

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

Full Tilt Poker $25/$50 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BB: $5299.00
BTN/SB: $4699.50

Pre Flop:
BTN/SB raises to $150, BB raises to $500, BTN/SB raises to $1200, BB raises to $5299 all in, BTN/SB calls $3499.50 all in

Flop: ($9399.00) 2

Turn: ($9399.00) J

River: ($9399.00) 8

Spoiler:

even at 5knl 1010 is never ahead imo

03-27-2008 , 10:03 AM

#1040

whyzze

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,266

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

its a def leak to 4bet/fold those hands. You have put too much money in for folding to be best and you shouldn't be 4betting the the kind of person that could warrant a fold to a 5bet shove.

You would be surpised who is aware and you have a Laggish image. Theres nothing wrong with playing conservatively at uNL but you need to focus on the EV of these situations and 4bet folding is never +EV with standard stacks...except possibly for meta purposes.

03-27-2008 , 10:04 AM

#1041

whyzze

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PJo336

even at 5knl 1010 is never ahead imo

TT is the nuts silly

03-27-2008 , 10:05 AM

#1042

Spurious

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I always 4bet to 2.25 the 3bet amount, so I am not priced in vs KK+, therefore I fold.

03-27-2008 , 10:05 AM

#1043

Gelford

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

Not really, I seem to run into plenty of villians either

1. ZOMG He has AK !!! and then felt 55 or

2. Hehe ... 23s and then felt some suited junk

03-27-2008 , 10:07 AM

#1044

whyzze

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,266

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

I always 4bet to 2.25 the 3bet amount, so I am not priced in vs KK+, therefore I fold.

generally when ppl make 4bets that leave room for a fold i turbo 5bai. lol.

03-27-2008 , 10:07 AM

#1045

thac

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 46,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

I always 4bet to 2.25 the 3bet amount, so I am not priced in vs KK+, therefore I fold.

If you're folding TT-QQ to a push, you're better off flatting the 3-bet. Why would you wanna turn the best hand into a bluff?

03-27-2008 , 10:09 AM

#1046

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thac

If you're folding TT-QQ to a push, you're better off flatting the 3-bet. Why would you wanna turn the best hand into a bluff?

I usually just call there with TT-QQ, AK.
I 4bet very rarely, only if someone seems to 3bet me quite often.

03-27-2008 , 10:09 AM

#1047

whyzze

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oh ya....also

i cant remember the last time I 4bet w/ AA or KK.

03-27-2008 , 10:10 AM

#1048

Spurious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by whyzze

oh ya....also

i cant remember the last time I 4bet w/ AA or KK.

yeah, that's what I started doing recently
I rarely 4bet preflop

03-27-2008 , 10:11 AM

#1049

whyzze

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,266

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

yeah, that's what I started doing recently
I rarely 4bet preflop

well i cant remember the last time i didn't 4bet AK/QQ either. lol

03-27-2008 , 10:12 AM

#1050

thac

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 46,655

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurious

I usually just call there with TT-QQ, AK.
I 4bet very rarely, only if someone seems to 3bet me quite often.

Note before I say this: uNL - this is NOT for you, don't 4-bet light, you'll save a bunch of money that way.

Spur, if I had to give you a range to 4-bet against a person that you think may be 3-betting light, it'd be this: KK+, AK, T7s, 75s. I'll let you ponder from there.

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