Fair enough. Let me note however that your opinion does not coincide with definitions in English dictionaries, like the Compact Oxford English Dictionary.


gamble verb

1. play games of chance for money
2. bet (a sum of money).
3. take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

It is also noteworthy that authors like David Sklansky disagree with you.

it was funny looking at the people eaves dropping our conversation in the sports book as we were doing these calculations. They had the most horrid, confused expressions on their faces.

You are definitely not as far ahead in that spot. Have to hit runner runner but there are 4 J's and 4 Q's to do it with. It's not perfect perfect.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

990 games 0.047 secs 21,063 games/sec

Board: 8s 9h Td
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 97.323% 96.26% 01.06% 953 10.50 { 7d6h }
Hand 1: 02.677% 01.62% 01.06% 16 10.50 { AcKd }

Sammy's hand...

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

990 games 0.015 secs 66,000 games/sec

Board: Qs 7h 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 99.899% 99.90% 00.00% 989 0.00 { QdQh }
Hand 1: 00.101% 00.10% 00.00% 1 0.00 { 8c8s }

pretty sure he means runner runner straight flush ftw. ie you have a straight flush and runners the royal.

This.

At least you got to shoot one of these.....

that was the awesome.

That's exactly the same as Sammy's hand obviously needing perfect perfect. The only hand where you have better equity and could still not win is the one I described earlier in the thread.

If in both situations you need runner runner perfect your equity should be identical, shouldn't it?

That's fine. But I'm more concered with getting the U.S. government to overturn/fix the UIGEA, and the more often people refer to poker as common "gambling" like other casino games, the less likely it is this will happen.

And it's about time I disagreed with Sklansky on something.....

Certainly nothing wrong with that

Well, in the original straight flush example, villain would need perfect perfect for a chop, so his equity would only be half of a "standard" perfect perfect.

this.

I don't consider poker "gambling" either. Friend wanted to run down to Target Field for the opener today with some $$$ and try and buy tickets off people, told him i really wanted to work today.

"Ha, you call what you do work?"

I got a little frustrated by it, but didn't say anything to him.

Skol Twins

Blah blah blah pointless post that was already covered.

Haha, thats reminds me why I do not talk with friends about Poker anymore.

Well, whether poker is a game of chance or not basically depends on how long a term you examine. Any given hand is a game of chance, but, in the long run, luck has no effect and skill determines winners and losers completely.

As for "bet," a bet in poker is not like a bet in craps or roulette, insofar as a bet when you are "gambling," such as in roulette or on a sporting event, cannot affect the outcome of the event. So, in that regard, poker jargon is somewhat inaccurate. Poker bets should be referred to as "moves."

as for the risky action definition, see point one.

After so many years you quit really talking to anyone about poker who isn't involved in it. They either don't understand or look at you like you're a degen. Most of my family knows what the hubby and I do for a living but we just don't talk about it. It's easier that way than trying to explain things.

The less they know the better prolly lol.

+1.

So the project I am working on with the PPA involves writing an opinion column for this Sunday's edition of my local paper.

I cranked out a 1400 word draft on Wednesday and told the PPA I thought it was about 30% long for my local paper (gotta love modern attention spans). So we spent the rest of the week getting the draft down to 900 words and shipped it off to the editorial board of the paper.

The Sunday opinion editor just e-mailed me saying she loves it, but can I chop it down to 650 words.

asdfghjkl why can't people read 1000 word columns? I mean, it is a 4 page paper if you print it out as a double-spaced Word doc.

People are dumb.

/rant

Will you be able to post your opinion article here Mpethy, so those of us not in your local newspaper's circulation area can read it?

Because they need room for these profound thoughts as well.

Maybe not moving in the flight path in the first place would be a solution?

Have you read this?

http://fslexcducktales.com/?page_id=102

But the fact that luck has no effect in the long run is true for any game of chance. Some, like poker, add a skill element; others, like Roulette, are simply elaborate ways to burn money, or if you like, to increase variance while decreasing expected value. It's all gambling to me, but in poker at least you have a chance to have a positive expectation.

If you believe in half-million hand break-even stretches you have to admit that a live player won't ever "see the long run" (nor would a multitabler, since the long run deals with limits of infinite series).

I know that this discussion may have political implications, so I'll shut up now. I think I made my point clear.

I'll try to post a link. It seems the column is going to run this coming Sunday in the print version of the paper. If they don't reprint it online, I'll just cut and paste it here.

Having completed the edits that take it down to 650 words, I have to say that I like it better this way. It is much tighter. I wish I could have gone with a rigorously edited version of the 1400 word draft, but this 650 word version is an improvement on the 900 or so word version I originally submitted.

We have a somewhat amusing history with Naval Air Station Oceana, which sits right in the middle of a subdivision within Virginia Beach.

Back when they opened NAS Oceana, it was surrounded by a few really huge farms. The farmers eventually sold to developers who put up some pretty nice neighborhoods around the air station, which, originally, were owned primarily by the folks stationed at the air station.

Military pay went up faster than the home values around the air station, so, now, mostly non-navy folks live in the homes, and, of course, now thay all complain about the jet noise.

You gotta wonder about people--I mean, there is a shopping mall built near there that is on a piece of property dubbed, "the phantom grave yard," in honor of all the F-4 fighters that crashed there on approach to Oceana back in the 60s and 70s. So, yeah, of course we'll just build a big mall on approach to the air station.

The navy moved its flight paths around to compensate, and periodically we get a news article about a navy pilot who dies at the control of his plane rather than ejecting so it'll crash safely out at sea rather than in the neighborhood. Sort of pisses me off that people complain about the noise.

Thanks for the link; yet another reason to Vanessa.

Well, you are looking at the situation as long run/not long run, when, in fact, as sample size goes up, luck becomes less of a factor until we reach "none at all." This is also true for games of chance, but the distinction is this: that in poker, skill can get you closer to the long run faster. This is why players with a small win rate tend to have swingier swings than good players.

Also, the long run deals with averages; and while I might concede that some live players will never see the long run, they are the outliers; the average player will reach something reasonably close to his theoretical win rate.