i dont consider it bad etiquette but i do think its rather lame if someone never starts deep tbls but is always quick to jump on one as soon as they see a fish join. these ppl arent really helping the overall state of the games and are just leeching off the ones that are.

i also realize there isnt much really anything i can do about this other than make my opinion known. and while i think its pretty lame of ppl i realize most ppl actually do fit in this category so im not gonna lose sleep over it or anything.

the real problem i do have tho is w/ ppl like leatherass. he blogs about it, he posts about, about how he cant stand SSers....how they ruin the game....how they make the game less fun...etc... he has the balls to complain about this but cant give up a single ounce of EV long enough to help start deep tbls. its just the ultimate level or stupidity.

This is the justification behind all sorts of douchey stuff done at the tables.

Why stop there? Why not grim people constantly, sit directly to someone's left at an empty table, not let people play their button when a table breaks, slowroll anyone who you think it will tilt, sit out when the fish do. These are all "circumstancially +EV".

Personally there are things worth more to me than a couple big blinds here and there.

It's absolutely truth. It's an EV decision.

In a way you're right though, I've said it in this thread not too many posts ago, but poker etiquette is extremely -EV.

With a lot of the things you mention it's sort of whoever starts it first. I very rarely berate in chat, but if you start it I'll finish it... same with slowrolling, sitting to left, etc etc etc... you generally aren't being exploited by not slowrolling someone, whereas you are being exploited if you don't take advantage of a minbet DC situation.

I guess it doesn't matter, whatever any of us say will just be seen as "douchey justification", and I suppose it's worthless to argue with an opinion.

i actually do agree w/ u for the most part. i just dont see it as being that black and white.

i dont grim most ppl because i expect most ppl not to grim me. i do grim SSers tho cause i know they have no problem doing it to me. and if everyone but me grimmed ppl then i would most definitely start grimming ppl as i would feel like id be giving up too much to be the only one not doing it. while thats obv a very extreme case i feel like its fairly close to how ppl react in the situation of a disc. i honestly think 90%+ ppl bet in that spot just to win the pot. so by letting them do it to me and not doing it to them im not just giving up a little EV, im giving up a ton of EV overall every time it happens.

now u can call that a justification for being a douche if u want and in some underhanded way, maybe it is. to me tho i guess its my threshold for how big of an EV nit i will be. its my threshold for how much EV i will give up to not be considered a douche and treat my peers w/ respect. its my threshold for how much EV i will give up to practice good etiquette even when many dont in the same situation. and if there was any kind of standard in this spot to not bet someone out, then i would definitely go w/ that standard. however, the standard right now is to bet someone out because the vast majority of ppl are doing that. if that makes me a douche then i guess so be it, but that is my threshold for not getting **** on by ppl in this game just to do the the non douchey thing.

What kind of animals do you think we are? Some of us know proper etiquette here. :P

But yeah, if it makes me money, I'm not gonna be too upset if someone gets mad at me for a few minutes.

wrt to rit, if you want to make up for the extra rake you are paying, next time you plan on doing a bunch of flips with someone, just make the flips worth 2x and rit, boom 33% less rake! less rb though

Never said it was bad etiquette, but it's insanely ******ed, no matter how you look at it.

That is until FTP cleans the shortstack problem one tiiiiime

I will agree that if you are someone that sits alone waiting to start tables you might as well make it a deep table

i need like 25k cash in biloxi, ms. please let me know if anyone can help. im worried i might not get my wire in time for the main.

he does this if you didnt know

lol more like $10-15.

10 of us just bought tickets for Chargers/Jets game tomorrow. 45 yard line 20 rows up. Time for some epic tailgating.

I LOL'd harder at this than I do at your blog posts, and those are pretty ****ing funny.

Again, wayyyy off. I have rit checked whenever I get aipf w AK or QQ- and I RIT like 1/2500 hands at most. So I guess it could be a hundred bucks if you play a quarter mil hands a week. More realistically you will pay like 8 bucks and chop a bunch of AK vs QQ/JJ/etc, and probably one of those chops comes during bad section when the loss would've tilted you, or at the very end of a session which would've pissed you off for like 15 minutes cause it sucks when that happens, or some other situation when it would be nicer not to lose than to win. Easily worth the 8 bucks imo


and on the other convo, etiquette is obv -EV but that's not a novel argument against doing it. Being a good person is often -EV, but pointing that out doesn't change anything. (definitely not saying that adhering to online poker etiquette = being a good person, just saying that the "its -EV" line is not much of a justification)

as far as disconnection, imo it is everyones own responsibility to have a stable connection(or two). plus those pots pretty much even out over the long run.

I'm in thailand atm and if I decided to play on a **** connection here and timed out in a big pot because of it I would just have to accept that as something thats gonna happen once in a while.


something fun to do for all the cool kids- block the bumhunters 100bb tables by sitting down then sitting out(they arent gonna play u anyways), and just sit in the second a fish sits.

+1 on bet when the other guy disconnects, but I think it's a little different if he is just multi-tabling and times out and you basically insta minbet, I mean I think in that situation you should just do what you normally would do if he checked. But do you just give the guy a free card/showdown just cause he only has one internet connection and it apparently sucks? I don't think it's bad etiquette either.

and yea LOL at RIT costing you hundreds of dollars a week. I mean not even close.

My take on the min-bet after timing out debate:
-If opponent is someone you know IRL: never do it
-If opponent is someone you don't know IRL: it's OK but I take the time to make a normal sized bet

if he's multitabling and times out then he shouldn't be playing that many tables

there should be an option to switch your own default action when you time out from check/fold to check/call any or even better, shove all in/call any.

This statistic surprises me. Let's say you get all in 25 times in a 2500 hand session that means only 1 out of 25 people use RIT? I don't RIT but always assumed I was in the minority.

I dont know if I get AI 25 times w/o AA or KK in 2500 hands (not counting ssers, I dont rit for 20 bbs). But you are not in the minority as far as i can tell.

you don't rit for 20bbs? how do you decide? is there an option or are you just checking/unchecking it when your about to go AI

Isn't it annoying to have to keep clicking RIT on and off?

default is off and I just check it when i 4b or get 4b with one of those hands. Doesn't happen all that much and using tableninja and not playing more than 10 tables its not annoying at all. I just uncheck it as soon as the hands get turned up, I occasionally forget to uncheck it but I just notice later and do it then, it is not difficult at all.