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NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river

08-12-2010 , 09:30 AM
Villain is running at 22/20 over a small sample(120) w 19% 3bet out of SB, 3.0 agg and a very high WWSF %

Hero has been active, stealing OTB at 40% but hasn't yet defended vs his 3bet

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($81.70)
BB ($53.75)
UTG ($50.75)
UTG+1 ($95.55)
CO ($52.75)
Hero ($66.85)

Dealt to Hero T 9

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, SB raises to $4.50, fold, Hero calls $3

FLOP ($9.50) 9 6 J

SB checks, Hero bets $5.75, SB calls $5.75

TURN ($21) 9 6 J 2

SB bets $12.50, Hero calls $12.50

RIVER ($46) 9 6 J 2 J

SB checks, Hero ??

Obviously I flopped the nuts, and don't mind getting it in but I also don't want to give his overcards and draws free cards so I bet once I get checked to. His turn bet is a bit confusing and I figured I don't have enough equity(draw+fold) to shove and since we are a bit deeper I just call.

River is where it gets interesting. I feel like I should bluff jamm to fold out TT QQ and maybe better 9's since I don't think he can have a J here ever and also have a perfectly pot sized bet left to bluff with?


So my question is do you shove river? Do you check behind? And why?
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:33 AM
He isnt folding better hands.. I would bet for value versus 89s 79s 88- kinda handen..

But i think both are not so good.. Just check with youre showdown value and make a note..

Also youre playing pretty thin back at him.. over 120 hands isnt that much
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:38 AM
I check behind here, I think you have showdown value against a decent portion of his range. I doubt you're folding out very many hands... QQ/TT might fold but you're targeting a very small fraction of his range.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:40 AM
id check back because if he can handread decently, you cant credibly rep Jx or a set on that board. he's probably going c/c river.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicetake
id check back because if he can handread decently, you cant credibly rep Jx or a set on that board. he's probably going c/c river.
he isnt CCing QQ... We block some TT combo's..

So his range is 9x Jx 88- if he can hand read
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicetake
id check back because if he can handread decently, you cant credibly rep Jx or a set on that board. he's probably going c/c river.
Why not? I'd play AJ precisely the same.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTruli
Why not? I'd play AJ precisely the same.
AJ KJs QJs TJs J9s? 99?

yeah huge range.. but that doesn't really mather becuase low stakes idiots don't think in ranges.. And just push call because they do it..

My leak also..
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:52 AM
check behind flop unless you think youre going to be getting c/r a decent amount. Check behind river its hard to find a better hand he plays this way and then folds, and he isnt calling with worse.

Also you can rep Jx/sets perfectly fine but nobody at uNL who can handread takes this line so villain either has the nuts or has a marginal hand he believes is the uber nuts or he has **** all and we win anyway
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:53 AM
Man this hand is super confusing.. especially because I did shove and he did fold..
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTruli
Man this hand is super confusing.. especially because I did shove and he did fold..
he had a worse hand.. no way he is checking QQ on this flop..

And there only 3 TT's left in the deck
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTruli
Man this hand is super confusing.. especially because I did shove and he did fold..
Was youre shove for a bluff or for value?
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 09:58 AM
yea well if he had a worse hand I should have shoved the turn or not?

I thought I should bluff shove river.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTruli
yea well if he had a worse hand I should have shoved the turn or not?

I thought I should bluff shove river.
Nothing better folds.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTruli
Man this hand is super confusing.. especially because I did shove and he did fold..
You had the best hand, shoving is pretty bad cause hes folding worse and snp calling better
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 10:38 AM
I don't know what hands villain takes this line with... at all
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gateswi
I don't know what hands villain takes this line with... at all
You and me both man. That's the confusing part to me.. I mean I really feel like I'm going to lose often if I check and he can't call if I shove.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 11:24 AM
i feel that he prolly had 9x, 88, tt, something similar. he bet the turn 1. hoping to get u to fold 2. see if you had the jack...
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTruli
You and me both man. That's the confusing part to me.. I mean I really feel like I'm going to lose often if I check and he can't call if I shove.
then shove but that doesn't make since to me. i kind of want to take the showdown as i think i can have the best hand and i also want to see what he is doing this with. he is never folding a J and the odds of him folding an overpair seem slim. but why he would play an overpair like this i have no idea.

and you have a blocker to TT
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 12:30 PM
i like the way you played the hand. Tho i d check back the river. There is some value versus some hands, but he will also call you with hands lik TT and you valuetowned youself.

hmm well actually i d bet 16$ or something . But i have also no idea what he has. kinda thinking of AQ AK stuff, possibly KQ?! but he should bet those. maybe 77-88.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 01:33 PM
Anybody considered TQ, 78s? It makes sense to me. He calls straight draw on flop and donkbets 1/2 trying to fold out air.

Im checking behind on river.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackDespair
i like the way you played the hand. Tho i d check back the river. There is some value versus some hands, but he will also call you with hands lik TT and you valuetowned youself.

hmm well actually i d bet 16$ or something . But i have also no idea what he has. kinda thinking of AQ AK stuff, possibly KQ?! but he should bet those. maybe 77-88.
I like how you played the hand as well; though I would check back the river. There are arguments for betting the river - 88/77 may cry call because you're line looks just as much like QT and whiffed clubs as it does JA. But, without a dynamic...not to mention villain's goofy line...I can't put him on anything. You played decent pot control given those considerations and I think you should continue that by checking back now.

I guess you could do a thin block / value bet, but even that seems weird.

Barry
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 02:45 PM
Reasons for not shoving the turn?
We could call since we have direct odds but then we would just need to check down/fold if missed, so this river is not really interesting at all.
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote
08-12-2010 , 02:52 PM
yeah that is actually what I'm now leaning towards my self. I think he had some sort of a draw and was planing to bluff the river, but caught the worst possible river to bluff at

so.. in retrospect I should have just shoved the turn
NL50: light 3B defend, interesting spot on the river Quote

      
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