NL50: KTs facing lots of weak bets - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash

NL50: KTs facing lots of weak bets

Post Reply Subscribe

...

04-14-2008 , 07:46 AM

Nichlemn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 9,480

Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

BTN: $74.75
SB: $69.10
BB: $34.90
UTG: $62.75
MP: $29.35
Hero (CO): $118.90

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with K

1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.50, 2 folds, BB raises to $4.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($9.75) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($9.75) T

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB raises to $12, Hero calls $6

River: ($33.75) Q

(2 players)
BB bets $6, Hero calls $6

Villain is a 60/15 fish.

I hate every single call but I feel I have to make them because of the pot odds. Presumably this is Villain tarping with AA/KK, but is it AcKc or other random stuff enough to be worth it?

Quote

04-14-2008 , 07:49 AM

C17H21NO4

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 166

without reads what weak-bets and minraises from this vilfish mean, i'd play it the same.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 08:47 AM

volition

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 588

He's giving you awesome odds on the river for a call, I think a river call is fine here.

$6 into $34? You're getting 6.66 to 1 for your call ($6 into a $40 pot), he only has to be bluffing a very small % of the time to show a profit calling this.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 10:31 AM

bambam16

adept

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 911

How was his preflop play besides the 60/15 stats? Should we be calling his 3 bet preflop? I know it's only another $2 but only knowing his raise stats I have to figure his 3 bet range is pretty strong.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 10:52 AM

Spurious

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 18,593

Hmm weird, you shouldnt be in that spot with KT imo.
Even if he's a fish, I dont know a lot about his 3bet tendencies, but a 60/15 isnt raising a ton, so he probably isn't 3betting a ton therefore I give up preflop.
Hmm I think since you have to bet the turn it's fine from there on.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 10:56 AM

Grunch

Bounty Hunter

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,705

Fold preflop. I mean KTs is close and having the button is worth a ton. But you need to get away from thinking things like "I call for pot odds" and you need to at least be capable of folding in this spot.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 10:59 AM

Nichlemn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 9,480

Don't implied odds come into account here? I'm thinking that anyone fishy enough to min3bet, even if they do often have a strong hand, will play it so badly and always stack off when beaten that it's probably worth it.

Last edited by Nichlemn; 04-14-2008 at 11:16 AM.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 11:04 AM

Spurious

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 18,593

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichlemn

Doesn't implied odds come into account here? I'm thinking that anyone fishy enough to min3bet, even if they do often have a strong hand, will play it so badly and always stack off when beaten that it's probably worth it.

Then a pair of Ts isnt the hand you called for implied odds with preflop.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 11:35 AM

Grunch

Bounty Hunter

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,705

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nichlemn

Even if they do play badly postflop, if as you say thier preflop range is slanted towards the stronger part of thier range, then this is actually a reverse-implied odds situation. KJ is a RIO kind of hand.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 11:40 AM

#10

ImprovinNewbie

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,367

The only fold I could find is PF I think. The turn is occasionally a bluff, I think most check min raises are stong but the pot is so big compaired to thebet. Definitly call river.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 12:30 PM

#11

wslee00

veteran

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,637

tough spot... I might fold turn, but once you call that, you have to call river.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 05:48 PM

#12

Thrahl

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,763

If he had a full stack I call pf but not here. Post flop is standard.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 06:24 PM

#13

diditmyway

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 512

Preflop i isolate the limper only if i know SB and BB dont squeeze a whole lot. Even against this min3bet i fold since theres not alot to win if u hit. Besides your equity against his 3bet range is probably not very high.

Quote

04-14-2008 , 07:25 PM

#14

Kasane

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,128

I think you have to call here pf given the little raise and suited KT in position against a 60/15(!). It might be a minor error, but very minor if at all, and we get all sorts of nice big errors from villain post flop.

Someone argue me out of this if you really think it's wrong, because I'm making this call all day long against these types -- heck, just about any type if they're 3betting small oop. Villain's stack may not be full, but I don't start thinking fold it until villain's stack is 70BB or less. I see all sorts of weird min-raises from 60/15 villains, from K8os to AA (weighted towards the high end, but not Rosie ODonnel/Kate Moss off balance).

Quote

04-14-2008 , 08:45 PM

#15

Boerstyboy

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,345

the problem is: what you do when you hit a king ? or a ten ? and do top pair on the flop. then you do exatkly what the fish want. get money in when behind.
and if you are not behind you just dont know if you have implides.

i made this mistake also al lot ot times. i think the key is to polarise your range a bit more. callt with hands like QK and 67s but fold such hands like KT or something.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...