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NL50 - JJ played too weak? NL50 - JJ played too weak?

10-21-2008 , 02:01 PM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($153.85)
Hero (BB) ($50.80)
UTG ($50)
MP ($29.15)
CO ($65.65)
Button ($51.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
2 folds, CO raises to $2.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $8.50, CO calls $6

Flop: ($17.25) 10, 4, K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($17.25) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7, Hero ?

Unfortunately I had no stats on this villain since I don't have much NL50 stats yet. But the fact that he raised 5 BB preflop and called another 12 BB after my reraise made me put him on TT+, AK and maybe AQ. Since JJ is quite unlikely he maybe would fold only QQ and AQ when I cbet. I did not want to risk almost half of my stack here to find out that I am beaten. For a moment I wanted to call the turnbet but since I was out of position I did not like calling it and facing a riverbet. Did I play this hand too weak? I guess so...
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 02:27 PM
As BB i probably would have called preflop and then led then led out to see if they would raise. Id fold to a raise and if called would check the turn and fold to a bet.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 02:38 PM
Call turn, c/f river
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy28
Call turn, c/f river
Spewing much?
Why would you call the turn if you're not going to call the river? Calling both is bad, but calling and folding is worse,
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinitup0
Spewing much?
Why would you call the turn if you're not going to call the river? Calling both is bad, but calling and folding is worse,
As if donking the flop like you stated before for 'information' would be even close to optimal, lol, every decent player is raising with a lot of their range there.

As for the hand on the turn you've shown a lot of weakness by checking twice as the preflop raiser, almost any villain would bet ATC so you have to at least call the turn imo. River action would depend on alot of things, card, bet sizing, time tells.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 03:14 PM
I usually wouldn't 3 bet this preflop, and the postflop action is a pretty good indicator of why. This isn't to say I'd never do it, but I think my reasons would usually tend more toward isolation, which isn't relevant here. If you've been 3 betting a lot, such that the calling range of your opponent is pretty wide, then sure, go ahead and do it. But if that's your thinking then I think you really need to cbet this board.

EDIT:
Quote:
As for the hand on the turn you've shown a lot of weakness by checking twice as the preflop raiser, almost any villain would bet ATC so you have to at least call the turn imo.
I feel like this puts our hand pretty face up in this spot. Playing this hand in a 3 bet pot out of position leads to this kind of uncomfortable spot pretty often, which is why I tend to avoid it. If you have reads on your opponent where you can induce him to bluff, then great, this kind of postflop line is pretty sweet, but I think a lot of reasonable players will figure that you're on something like 99-QQ here given how you've played it and take a shot at you again on the river even if they're behind.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy28
As if donking the flop like you stated before for 'information' would be even close to optimal, lol, every decent player is raising with a lot of their range there.

As for the hand on the turn you've shown a lot of weakness by checking twice as the preflop raiser, almost any villain would bet ATC so you have to at least call the turn imo. River action would depend on alot of things, card, bet sizing, time tells.
Why in the world would you assume they are a good player?

Whatever man....Im leading out, check/call and check/fold is weak....they raise me on the flop and i'll fold.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 04:41 PM
^^ I'm with you so far.

Now let's say Villian calls. Turn comes the 4, which is almost certainly brick.

Now what? 2nd barrel? Odds are pretty slim he's on a draw, so we're pretty sure we're either ahead at the moment or permanently behind.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by svj
^^ I'm with you so far.

Now let's say Villian calls. Turn comes the 4, which is almost certainly brick.

Now what? 2nd barrel? Odds are pretty slim he's on a draw, so we're pretty sure we're either ahead at the moment or permanently behind.
No im not going to shoot twice without one hell of a read.....c/f if you get called.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 05:01 PM
I think the range you put him on to call the 3bet preflop is wrong, he could have a way wider range. I would definitely not fold the turn, and I don't see a problem with c/f river, although I would be c/c on a lot of rivers

As for the donking flop line, it's, well, donkish
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonManuel
I think the range you put him on to call the 3bet preflop is wrong, he could have a way wider range. I would definitely not fold the turn, and I don't see a problem with c/f river, although I would be c/c on a lot of rivers

As for the donking flop line, it's, well, donkish
Seriously? Are you saying you either c/c or c/f this every time?
You're probably right(Im far from a great player), but this line just seems fishy-weak to me.

It seems to me that leading out would only be bad with a LAG villian?

Please explain....thanks
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 06:05 PM
c/c turn, c/c most rivers (Q and A are bad, ldo)
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote
10-21-2008 , 06:23 PM
call turn eval on river, he bet so small that you pretty much "have to" call the turn imo given that you've shown weakness.
NL50 - JJ played too weak? Quote

      
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