NL50, I 3bet bluff, but get some draws - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL50, I 3bet bluff, but get some draws

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08-26-2009 , 01:53 AM

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

V is LAG, 51/25, steal 47%, 3bet 3.5%

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
Hero ($101)
BB ($13.07)
UTG ($95.60)
UTG+1 ($46.75)
CO ($39.15)
BTN ($51.80)

Dealt to Hero T

fold, fold, CO calls $0.50, BTN raises to $2.25, Hero raises to $8.25, fold, fold, BTN calls $6

FLOP ($17.50) A

Hero bets $9.25, BTN calls $9.25

TURN ($36) A

Hero ??

do you push the turn ??
Do you cbet that flop??

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08-26-2009 , 02:07 AM

DBallerz

adept

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 725

fold pre, all you have is a double gapper straight and a flush draw (and how much are you gonna flop that). I would fold and pick a better spot at least with 89s. With a 3bet of 3.5 your hand is CRUSHED.

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08-26-2009 , 02:40 AM

mattcky3000

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 413

^^^I don't agree with this logic at all. If Villain is stealing such a high percentage of the time, it is highly profitable to 3-bet him in these spots. An important stat to look at for this is his 'fold to 3-bet%'. And FYI, Villain's 3-bet% has nothing to do with this hand.

As played, the flop bet should b bigger. $12 is good. Once he calls, he probably isnt folding to any turn shove.

River is a c/f. Even though your getting some outs on teh turn, a push is just spew. Its not even close IMO.

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08-26-2009 , 02:47 AM

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBallerz

With a 3bet of 3.5 your hand is CRUSHED.

you've just won the award for quoting the most inconsequential bit of information in the whole hand

defo play 710 suited, it's my favorite hand and it should be yours too

well yeah, once called pfr i really don't like donking an AK9 flop @ all, i'd probably just c/f and stop digging. also, it's too small a bet. you can't make any bet on the turn that doesn't commit villain so i'm stuck as to whatta do. again i'm just c/f here, cut your losses

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08-26-2009 , 02:55 AM

lifes3ps

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,694

pre is meh-minus, wholly dependent on his fold to 3b. also a 51/25 isnt lag, but htats jsut technicalities.

3b w/ a polarized range ip, non polarized oop (big cards).
c/f flop, it hit every part of his calling range sides 87s. as played c/f turn or make a gaybet to see turn cheap if hes not capable of raising. your straight outs are "tainted" because they chop quite a bit if anyone bets

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08-26-2009 , 02:59 AM

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOONERCAM

again i'm just c/f here, cut your losses

When the flop came, i know it hit his range a lot, but i'm also representing strenght.

And a loose V can maybe call my squeeze with TT, JJ which folds here a lot to a cbet.

and his fold to 3bet is 0 on 5, but i didn't pay enough attention on that....

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08-26-2009 , 03:05 AM

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifes3ps

your straight outs are "tainted" because they chop quite a bit if anyone bets

I also turned a FD

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08-26-2009 , 03:13 AM

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKsOZ

bear in mind we're betting against a range to determine whether your bet is +EV. i'm fairly sure on an AK9 flop there it is -EV in the long run

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08-26-2009 , 03:15 AM

Syberduh

adept

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,019

So he has fold to 3bet of 0%? In that case I don't 3bet T7s, but I def cbet A-high flops vs. opponents like this and yes I would shove the turn.

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08-26-2009 , 03:17 AM

#10

Syberduh

adept

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOONERCAM

bear in mind we're betting against a range to determine whether your bet is +EV. i'm fairly sure on an AK9 flop there it is -EV in the long run

If villain is stealing 49% and never folds to 3bets then his range is huge and cbetting A high flops is profitable and pretty much necessary. Flush outs on the turn make this an easy shove for me. Still wouldn't 3bet rags OOP vs. this villain type tho.

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08-26-2009 , 03:21 AM

#11

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syberduh

maybe if it was a bare A high flop, but the presence of both the A and K totally changes how often his range hits this flop. i think you have to 2barrel once cbetting though.

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08-26-2009 , 03:23 AM

#12

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOONERCAM

maybe if it was a bare A high flop, but the presence of both the A and K totally changes how often his range hits this flop. i think you have to 2barrel once cbetting though.

on the turn villains got 30$ left, it's better to shove no ?

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08-26-2009 , 03:37 AM

#13

Gelin1

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 498

I don't like pre vs his stats. I'm no PT-expert but doesn't the big difference between Vpip and pfr suggest that while he does open a lot, he also does not like to fold pf. I mean he plays just over 50% of his hands; he's prob not folding anything even remotely playable to your 3b. Including PPs, T9/JT/QT/KT/AT etc

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08-26-2009 , 03:40 AM

#14

GOONERCAM

Resident Rollbuster

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 7,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKsOZ

on the turn villains got 30$ left, it's better to shove no ?

yeah a relative 2nd barrel, so a shove is the best relative to the pot size. still, i'd just avoid all this by c/f the flop

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08-26-2009 , 04:43 AM

#15

turbulence-flow

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 589

no one else thinks a large part of villains range (before the call on the flop of course) is like 66-88 1010 and JJ This is fairly opponent dependent but many people flat 3bets with these pp's

Last edited by turbulence-flow; 08-26-2009 at 04:46 AM. Reason: i can't read: but yeah i like the cbet, turn is reallly close and really depends on whether he would fold like AJ/A10 here

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08-26-2009 , 04:45 AM

#16

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbulence-flow

no one else thinks a large part of villains range (before the call on the flop of course) is like 66-88 1010 and JJ This is fairly opponent dependent but many people flat 3bets with these pp's

yeah, that's why I Cbet, to make him fold all those hands

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08-26-2009 , 04:47 AM

#17

absolutefish

BBV champion

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,826

Shove turn yourself, if you want to take that line.

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08-26-2009 , 04:51 AM

#18

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by absolutefish

Shove turn yourself, if you want to take that line.

very usefull reply....

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08-26-2009 , 05:19 AM

#19

absolutefish

BBV champion

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKsOZ

very useful reply....

fyp.

Ok c/fold then. Do what you want, I don't care.

Quote

08-26-2009 , 05:23 AM

#20

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by absolutefish

fyp.

Ok c/fold then. Do what you want, I don't care.

don't reply on my thread please, you seem to have nothing constructive to say

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08-26-2009 , 05:25 AM

#21

absolutefish

BBV champion

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,826

Noted.

You misinterpreted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by absolutefish

Shove turn yourself, if you want to take that line.

What I meant was if you're going to bet, it's a shove, but w/ever.

Last edited by absolutefish; 08-26-2009 at 05:36 AM.

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08-26-2009 , 05:31 AM

#22

lima

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,766

It would be helpful if you posted his 'Fold to 3bet %' stats.

I give up on this Flop.

The Turn is meh, but I FE is close to 0.

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08-26-2009 , 05:33 AM

#23

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by lima

It would be helpful if you posted his 'Fold to 3bet %' stats.

I give up on this Flop.

The Turn is meh, but I FE is close to 0.

his fold to 3bet is 0% on 5

Quote

08-26-2009 , 05:47 AM

#24

MaKsOZ

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 539

Quote:

Originally Posted by absolutefish

Noted.

You misinterpreted:

What I meant was if you're going to bet, it's a shove, but w/ever.

That make a lot more sense to me that what you previously said, you are allowed to post

Quote

08-26-2009 , 05:47 AM

#25

lima

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,766

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaKsOZ

his fold to 3bet is 0% on 5

then don't 3bet him with T7s.

since his steal is high 47% and fold to 3bet is 0%, you can 3bet his BTN raise with any two broadways and any PP and make it +EV.

this player is very exploitable.

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