That's silliest reason I could think of. "Let's bet 99% of my stack with my gutshot to lower end of 1 card straight so I'll get correct odds to draw".

Okay so bit extreme but hey you ARE getting right odds to call...

Also it's not like you are missing on your draw to your royal flush if you check(actually if you don't like getting it in on flop you help it as you can't be pushed off the hand).

Better reason is to bet for value if you think you get called by worse and because your implied odds are non-existant on pretty much any turn card. Best you can hope for is non-heart T and then freeroll some money vs some sort of Ax hand.

That's what I said principaly , I d't know , do you read before posting or something?
1st : i think I have the best hands
2nd: I'm gonna stick my money in what ever happen , and have the odds to call anyway if im behind ...

no brainer bet / call

and yes I think I can get paid off by worse hands

+1. Scooby has very good posts itt.

Suicidal spot to bluff

With what worse hands you expect him to call? naked T? Naked flushdraw? Pretty optimistic. Qx and Jx aren't calling without 2 pair.

Sure you can do wish-wish bet and hope like hell he is braindead idiot but that's wish-wish poker

ship turn and get called by worse from 30/8.
and for the times he has better, you have tons of outs.

I don't understand why betting this flop is so bad. With TPTK, gutshot and the nut flush draw, is checking back here not missing a ton of value? I find it hard to believe that only two pair or better continues if we bet the flop. I don't see much point pot controlling when it's very likely we have the best hand. Each to their own I guess.

only god knows what donkeys are ready to pay me off with !! u got to be optimistic , instead of running random bs bluff or 3 barelling total air , I prefer betting 4 value my monsters , and let them think I'm trying to steal the pot and let them do a mistake by making a stupid plays , by thinking , woah would he really lead out KKK there or JJJ ,or QQQ or A high flush draw , , and this could make them want to bluff me out ... by repping something I dt know ... its microstakes u know , u see all kinds of weird stuff going on at those tables.

never assume that ur opponents isnt doing mistakes , and arnt doing moove or fancy play ... U got to hope =)

(Sorry - this started off as a response to wishiewish's comment specifically with regards to holding tonnes of outs and using that to justify a shove, but I end up supporting his position anyway)

Superficially we may have a lot of outs - what, 17? for a hand 2 pair or greater, but, while we know the villains are loose, do we think they're loose enough to call with a draw? 2-pair on a board like that? Even fish can find the fold button occasionally.

If we're up against a flush, we have 6 outs, and a few more against a straight.
Against trips, 10 outs.
Against 2-pair, 17.
Against 1-pair we're up against a villain who has 6 outs to win.
Against air or draws, it's happy days.

In a 3-bet pot, where a 30/8 who called a 3-bet, we have to assume this board hits his range pretty heavily, and weight our reactions to his behavior accordingly. To start off with, we can knock off air from his range, nobody is that fishy (ok they are, but it's a bit hard to base decisions based upon magical, mythical pots of gold). And honestly his range hits 2-pair+ so heavily, we have to really start from there and work up, with a light bit of consideration for fishy TPTK/MPTK.

If we look at us needing, on a weighted average of, say, needing to hit 15 outs to win (so weighting his range heavily towards 2-pair, a bit of 1-pair + draws, and the rest made from flushes/straights), so 30%, and from this fold percentage needs to be 7% to make a shove +ev, which makes this more than acceptable to shove on the turn. Even shifting that outs count down a bit to be more conservative, the fold percentage required isn't out of the realms of possibility.

Working all the way down to our worst case scenario where villain holds a flush, well, it's completely pointless because no fish is going to fold a flush, especially not from his range. You'd need ~60%, and there's no way fishie is folding that much.

Now, any bet other than a shove, well, any bet, really, may as well be a shove - if you half pot here, are you really going to able to walk away from that big a pot with the villain holding $10? Of course not, so it's a shove or check and re-evaluate. And as played you're getting pretty good odds to make that shove, I think. I'm not sure I like the shove, but I think it's justifiable, and the move that brings us the most value.

I'm not sure I'd take that flop line, but now you're here, well, finish it off.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,130,177 games 0.058 secs 36,727,189 games/sec

Board: Kh Qh Jh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.449% 42.57% 04.88% 906895 103851.67 { AhKc }
Hand 1: 28.643% 25.06% 03.58% 533890 76253.17 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs, J9s, T9s, AQo+, ATo }
Hand 2: 23.908% 20.33% 03.58% 433109 76178.17 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, J9s, T9s, AQo+ }


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The reasoning for checking back the flop is a lot sounder than some of the arguments being made in favour of betting, but I still think a bet is better. You just have SO much equity here with TPTK+nfd+broadway draw... even when we're behind we're not far behind at all, and given his fishiness he can definitely call with worse because there's no way he's folding something like KT/QT/JT/TT/9h9, and you'll definitely get a call from stuff like AQ/AJ at least some of the time.

If worst comes to worst the reg shows up with a monster and we get it in with 39% equity against a set. But I can't see him going for a check/raise on a board like this in a 3way pot with a fish so I think he's going to bet anything that has us beat the vast majority of the time. So you're much more concerned about the fish, and I don't doubt for a second that you have more than 50% equity against his calling range, even if you give him an extremely conservative calling range and stove it you're still comfortably ahead.