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NL5 line of thought NL5 line of thought

04-06-2010 , 04:18 PM
Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $4.86
MP2: $5.29
CO: $3.43
BTN: $3.71
Hero (SB): $5.00
BB: $7.12
UTG: $5.00
UTG+1: $8.72

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with T T
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, BB raises to $0.65, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.35) 6 3 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.78, BB raises to $6.47 all in, Hero ..

No stats, I suspect villain to be a semi-decent player.
I really need like a 'stream of consciousness' here, not just an answer of what to do. I need to be able to run through this thought process, because these hands are amongst my most losing ones.

In hindsight I realize this is probably a fold. But I need the thought process lined out I think.
NL5 line of thought Quote
04-06-2010 , 04:40 PM
The fold should be pf.

Now for my serious questions about your donk bet on the flop. What is your thinking behind it? Why does this make sense to you? Are you looking for a fold or a call?

I see this a lot at 5nl and even 25nl and I'd appreciate your comments on it before we on this forum corrupt you.
NL5 line of thought Quote
04-06-2010 , 04:52 PM
Well, you give no stats but you say he is a decent player. At this level I'd assume good just means straight forward and mostly betting/raising for value.

Here's what I'd be thinking in this hand against a solid ABC winning player at this level:

Preflop: Oh ****, this guy just 3 bet my 4x raise from the SB in the BB, I really doubt he is making some type of sophisticated move here, he probably has JJ+ and maybe AK, though he might just call with AK.

Do I have odds to setmine? 90 cents in the pot, 45 more cents for me to call, my max post flop score is only $4.35 more assuming I stack him with a set. That's only ~12:1 implied odds for a best case scenario. I'm OOP and I would like to have somewhere in the 20:1 implied odds range, 15:1 a the very least, **** me, I guess I have to FOLD.

FLOP: ****! I misclicked and called, oh well not the worst spot in the world, time to flop a set. Meh, an overpair but no set, lets not be silly and make a donk bet here. I'll just check and see how much he bets, or maybe if he's passive he'll just check back if he has AK.

****!!! My mouse is really acting up, I just donked ~1/2 pot on that raggy board, what am I trying to accomplish here? Oh well, maybe he'll fold overcards, or just call me and check a lot of hands down through the river now.

Ahh ****, he shoved it. He's telling me loud and clear that he has an overpair. He read my weak flop lead for what it is, a marginal hand putting out a "feeler" bet and shoved it back at me. He is probably a bit worried that I have some sort of draw, and he is probably not the most comfortable player in the world post flop with 1 pair anyway, so he is just making his life easier and shipping it in willing to get stacked by a set.

Unfotunately I don't have a set, FOLD.

(I curse a lot in my head, particularly when playing poker).
NL5 line of thought Quote
04-06-2010 , 04:56 PM
That's a donkbet? I was the first raiser PF :/
I don't see how a 3bet PF would make me fold TT in the micros. Lots of worse hands would be doing that I think (A2s+, A9o+, 55+, KQs+ ?).
I realize that this range is suddenly tighter with the flop raise. But how much is this on the micros?

The problem from my perspective is about how you view the player.
With the fish, I think a call here COULD be profitable. With a more solid player it very likely isn't.
NL5 line of thought Quote
04-06-2010 , 05:02 PM
"Decent" players at the micros are probably just as tight or tighter than any level, the regs are definitely almost all nits and they find themselves playing uNLFR because they can play a million tables and its one of the only HE games left online that you can beat with a super nitty style.

And yes, when you are ending the preflop action by calling a raise, then you lead out on the flop oop you are making a DONK bet. That doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing, as the name implies, but it does meet the criteria.
NL5 line of thought Quote
04-06-2010 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.Larsen
That's a donkbet? I was the first raiser PF :/
I don't see how a 3bet PF would make me fold TT in the micros. Lots of worse hands would be doing that I think (A2s+, A9o+, 55+, KQs+ ?).
I realize that this range is suddenly tighter with the flop raise. But how much is this on the micros?

The problem from my perspective is about how you view the player.
With the fish, I think a call here COULD be profitable. With a more solid player it very likely isn't.
Your 3bet range is too wide. Fold pre, as played, fold flop.
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04-07-2010 , 10:19 AM
Dont donk the flop or call pre-flop unless your stacking off on a low board. Its just burning money.
NL5 line of thought Quote

      
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