NL5 - Hero fold KK vs hyper nit & sick cold 4 bet - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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NL5 - Hero fold KK vs hyper nit & sick cold 4 bet

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08-12-2014 , 12:50 AM

Kiwi_Shredder

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,336

SB is is 15/6 and 0.9 3 bet over 820 hands - fair to say he only 3 bets KK+
BB is 18/14 over 148 hands

Are we on board with a dump here? Probably happy to gii or flat vs one villain but vs two I just suspect we are beat here....

Thoughts?

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (BTN): $8.75 (175 bb)
SB: $5.45 (109 bb)
BB: $6.55 (131 bb)
UTG: $13.73 (274.6 bb)
MP: $5.37 (107.4 bb)
CO: $15.20 (304 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with K

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, SB raises to $0.60, BB raises to $1.60, Hero folds, SB raises to $5.45, BB calls $3.85

Flop: ($11.02) 9

(2 players)
Turn: ($11.02) 5

(2 players)
River: ($11.02) 4

(2 players)

Spoiler:

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08-12-2014 , 12:51 AM

Kiwi_Shredder

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,336

Obviously, vs a typical 21/19 reg I'm happy to pile in the chips here given steal positions.

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08-12-2014 , 01:42 AM

EC2200

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,760

I'd still get it in every time.

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08-12-2014 , 01:58 AM

DonkeyStars

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,018

Over 820 hands your sample is relevant. I don't hate a fold here really, although do check his 3bet in the small blind percentage first - given positions it might widen to AK/QQ+ here.

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08-12-2014 , 02:36 AM

Kiwi_Shredder

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,336

I checked in game at the time, it was 1%.

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08-12-2014 , 04:48 AM

janique64

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 47

I am never folding this. Worst that could happen is getting coolered.
On the button you are getting 3bet a lot cause you play a wider range.
If you fold and c them going AI with qq vs AK or something you will feel like a ****ing moron.
3bet is very low but you only have 800 hands which is not that trustworthy i think.

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08-12-2014 , 05:01 AM

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

Given the info we have, folding seems the right play. Can't see how its a cooler if we get it in here since SB has AA close to always or we chop with KK and I think sample is big enough.

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08-12-2014 , 05:04 AM

DonkeyStars

banned

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,018

800 hands is a legitimate sample for 3bet % and it looks like this guy doesn't 3bet any wider from the SB either.

I don't really think it's a cooler if the stats over a large sample tell you he only 3bets KK+ then you shove all in with KK anyway.

Dunno in game whether I'd fold it but it can't be too bad vs an ubernit 3betting you then the BB 4betting the ubernit.

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08-12-2014 , 05:11 AM

MattiasH123

adept

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,071

Depends. You cannot know if BB has the same read as you do on SB (clearly he didnt as he called off the 5bet shove from the nit with AQs lol) and you fold before SB shoves. i think either way is fine in this case, as it seems one of these rare cases where you can make a case for folding KK, even if it is Btn vs SB VSBB. But i look at it this way: if you GII with KK, even if it is a mistake it can only ever be a small one, whereas if you fold you could miss out on a ton of value. I think in game i would only fold if one of villains was UTG

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08-12-2014 , 05:18 AM

#10

krooku

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 401

vs 2ppl with range of QQ+,AK your KK has 36%, so even taking rake into account ur not bad here.

Even biggest nits can do some dumb ****. Knowing only stats and not knowing his soul you can't just say 'he always has AA here'. Look at cold4bettor - AQs lol. You saying he'll fold QQ there? Or original 3bettor cant have AK? No, Im not buying it.

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08-12-2014 , 07:41 AM

#11

tomj

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,543

True we can't say he always has AA but he rarely doesn't. I don't see how he can have AK with a 1% 3bet over a reasonable sample and he clearly doesn't care about position. What BB has is pretty irrelevant imo, the 4bet just rules out the possibility of us flatting the 3bet (which would probably be a mistake anyway since we don't quite have good enough odds to setmine)

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08-12-2014 , 07:45 AM

#12

Patje90

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,708

I'm ok with a fold here. Although it is surprising that the BB has AQ.

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08-12-2014 , 09:51 AM

#13

TheBaconWarrior

adept

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 889

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patje90

I'm ok with a fold here. Although it is surprising that the BB has AQ.

He read that thread where SID and Martim were advocating cold 4b AQs as a standard in that spot.

If SB really does have 1% 3bet over that many hands I snap fold KK to the 3bet alone

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