UTG is a very loose winning reg playing 44/33 and opens 38% from UTG, MP coldcaller is a reg and BB (the target of the table) is a whale with 70% vpip.

I'm a TAG, but not sure how much pfr knows about me.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $4(BB) Replayer
SB ($446)
BB ($601)
UTG ($400)
UTG+1 ($451)
Hero ($456)
BTN ($400)

Dealt to Hero J A

UTG raises to $10, UTG+1 calls $10, Hero calls $10, fold, fold, BB calls $6

FLOP ($42) 9 2 4

BB bets $20, UTG raises to $56, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $56, BB calls $36

TURN ($210) 9 2 4 3

BB checks, UTG bets $334 (AI), Hero folds, BB folds

UTG wins $207


Anyone taking a different line?

Having position on the LAG I would raise pre-flop and/or raise on the flop.

Considering you flat pre-flop, it's the perfect semi-bluff spot against OOP loose player and the whale. You make it about $120 and the whale folds leaving UTG with issue over committing to the pot. That said, it can depend on this player's tendencies...will he ever fold 10,10 or J,J in this spot?

(on the flop that is)...

I think your line is fine. Raising the flop flips your hand face up. Which isn't the worse thing I guess as someone playing so loose (I have trouble believing anyone playing 44/33 is a winning player but w/e) isn't going to be able to do much about it. But I think there is far more value to be had in bringing the fish along.

$139 on Flop and call it off if he shoves.

Shove turn otherwise.

No, your line feels fine.

prefer flatting flop over raising, having BB come along when we have a nut draw is quite nice

3betting flop seems bad...

Probably not possible for both of these to be true. Sample?

I'm fine with everything, though. Nh

Heh, I also raised my eyebrowes over these stats, and upon taking a closer look it turns out I'm a bit deceived.

Over 26k hands he's up almost 2k playing NL200 and NL400 mainly. However, he's been running extremely well and is down 4.5k EV, so he's actually almost a 2Ev bb/100 loser over this sample.

your line is nitty.. its not awful. Your hand is face up to anyone with a pulse. If i flop the nut flush draw and two overs I am going to be hard pressed to not get as many chips in as i can... but thats my style.

how is raising the flop turning his hand face up??? that might be the most asinine thing ive read. If anything... flatting gives away his hand as a flush draw. If he were to come over the top on the flop he could have a draw, a set, an overpair, or a bluff (bluff unlikely).

I think 3betting the flop is meh, against a get in range of overpairs and sets. I like just calling and folding turn to the jam.

Raising here with a set would be horrific.

mandatory 3b gii flop

So you think 3betting the flop here credibly reps an overpair 4-way? Say you're sitting with like JJ facing a donk and a raise in a 4way pot. How excited are you here to pile it in?

I don't think there's really anything wrong with flatting here as well as flatting your good, but vulnerable hands like JJ and then sets. I think flatting far from turns your hand faceup.

Also, flatting often invites BB to call which makes your implied odds even better as well as never forcing out either of them with a dominated flush draw so that, if you do bink a diamond, you're stacking them.

I think I'm 3betting this hand pre-flop almost always when UTG is that loose.

As played I like 3-betting the flop. UTG has way more good 9x and overpairs in his range than sets and basically wants to isolate vs the fish. If we 3-bet here and UTG is sitting with an overpair or 9x it should be really hard for him to continue and even if he does we have great equity anyway.

Also it's worth noting that the 2 being the non-flush card means it's really hard for anyone to have a pair + flush draw so we crush all other flush draws. Getting it in against BB who has Qd8d is just printing money. (or even against reg who decides to go with a flush draw)

These two statements are contradictory. If raising the flop makes it obvious we have a draw, then how would raising a set be horrific? What would be your raising range in this spot?

I don't think its contradictory but I guess I should clarify. I don't have a raising range in this spot vs most regs (and when I do its with a read and 100% air). The reason for this is simply that a fish this bad still to act represents far too much value to risk raising out of the pot. Even if you can stack the regs TT+ OTF by developing a raising range, it still isn't worth it. You're likely winning a large pot from those hands anyway and you're losing a ton of money from the fish. So if I'm not raising my nut hands, it stands to reason that I shouldn't be raising my draws either.

That said, if I were to have to pick a hand to raise here it would be this one. This is obviously because unlike a set, raising and having them both fold is not a bad result.

how is raising here horrific? there is a flush draw on the board and there are alot of turn cards that can hit that could kill your action (if your opponent is strong).

on the bright side its good to know player like you are still in the game. See you on the jersey sites soon! (hopefully)

the huge problem with flatting is that if a diamond turns youre not going to get paid. Unless you flush over flush someone, nobody is sticking it in if you hit.

raising a set here is literally the nut low

Nobody thinks turn is close at all with NFD, wheeldraw and two overs that might be live against this guy and fish behind to act?

nothing pokerstove and some range play wont tell you...

I think against these two players I'm 3betting the flop and expecting to have a pile of FE and just flatting flop with sets to keep the fish in.

obviously ridiculously exploitable but you're playing against two fish.