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NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise?

08-04-2010 , 11:41 PM
Played this hand on my brother's laptop so no stats, don't recognise villain's name as a reg but he seems to be playing in a non-******ed way thus far. We haven't tangled in any meaningful way.


Full Tilt Poker $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $618.50
BTN: $592.20
Hero (SB): $698.00
BB: $415.30

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with J J
1 fold, BTN raises to $14, Hero raises to $44, 1 fold, BTN calls $30

Flop: ($92.00) 7 6 K (2 players)
Hero bets $52.00, BTN raises to $104, Hero?

Thoughts on my flop bet? I considered c/c but thought that would bring its own problems like turning my hand a bit face up, having no fold equity and plenty of stack depth to get barrelled off if villain doesn't want to check it down. I decided to go ahead and bet (sizing ok? I'd probably bet a similar amount with air/a real hand fwiw) and get this annoying minraise. Do we have to just fold here without any reads? If not, any ideas for a plan for later streets? All feedback appreciated
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:51 PM
If its a reg I shove, if not i fold.

But you have to have a plan here when u bet with Jacks on K dry board.

But most likely its a shove because your oponnent doesnt think you are going to play back at him so i dont think he value all that much in that spot.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 03:55 AM
I'd call, shoving looks pretty bad
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 04:04 AM
I think calling or folding are both okay. I suppose shoving balances out the times you want to shove with air? or if you're sure he's rarely doing this with a real hand and just want to protect your equity in the pot or get called by 89 and 54?
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 04:08 AM
Shoving is obv terrible, calling and folding are both ok.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 04:50 AM
Check flop, as played you have to call atleast one.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 08:28 AM
I'd call once, otherwise we're pretty exploitable. I don't like shoving, given how polarised his range is and how little equity we have v his calling range.

c/c is fine too - you just need to make sure you have hands in your c/c range that you can call down 3 streets with.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 04:33 PM
Seeing as this is pretty much the perfect flop for a pf 3-bettor to cbet his entire range, I think you have to call the flop minraise. I think he'll have air here a LOT if he's a reg and I can't see him raising a K or set on this ultra dry flop, which makes the flop raise suspect to further investigation.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOTHEC101
Shoving is obv terrible, calling and folding are both ok.
my thoughts as well
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 05:12 PM
Looks like a CIB to me.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman4hire
Looks like a CIB to me.
no
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 07:00 PM
So shoving is bad?? That's my initial thoughts too. but I could see situations where it could be good too.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman4hire
Looks like a CIB to me.
And fold to a shove?
I mean even 45 (his theoretical worst non air hand) will mostly flat the cib and not shove and I don't think he has enough air to make cib better than flatting (or folding) with JJ
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 07:18 PM
He has polarized his range to air or a monster all valid points above just my initial reaction(cib)
in this spot.
If we flat we are still looking at c/c turn river.The min is normally the sign of a monster .Or villian might just expect the c-bet and m/r to hope for the fold with air.
No stats reads ect..tricky spot calling and folding are fine. though.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-05-2010 , 07:25 PM
call/ go from there. plz dont overbet shove the flop, wow...
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-06-2010 , 01:07 AM
I don't see why we would do anything but call here.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-06-2010 , 03:16 AM
Call, and shoving w/ any hand in ur range is just lolbad.

-Mike
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-06-2010 , 03:46 AM
ugh so villain dependant, prolly save myself the headache too often but i think its just a fold. problem is villains generally know when they raise this board texture they look fos and expect 1 call, therefore the competenet ones wont be giving up on turns/rivers.

Hitman4hires line is spewy but i think i prefer that to call once fold turn. and shove is obv horrendous without the craziest dynamic in the world.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-06-2010 , 08:30 AM
thanks for the replies, I didn't really like any of my options much at all (maybe shoving has some merit 100bbs deep but sticking in another $450ish and hoping for the best seems really spewy here) and ended up deciding to call and see a turn:

Full Tilt Poker $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $618.50
BTN: $592.20
Hero (SB): $698.00
BB: $415.30

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is SB with J J
1 fold, BTN raises to $14, Hero raises to $44, 1 fold, BTN calls $30

Flop: ($92.00) 7 6 K (2 players)
Hero bets $52.00, BTN raises to $104, Hero calls $52

Turn: ($300.00) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($300.00) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $228.00, Hero?

Now the question is do I want to be a hero??
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote
08-06-2010 , 04:28 PM
sigh, tough spot of the highest order. probably, yes.
NL400: JJ oop in 3bet pot, do I really have to just fold to minraise? Quote

      
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