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NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river?

05-16-2014 , 06:27 AM
Agro villain. Expect him to have missed Q 10, J 10 and some flushdraws in his range, including overpairs and even monsters since a fish was between us.
In similar spots where my range is either missed draws or 9x that will bluffcatch often, i guess its not a good spot for him to bluff?

PokerStars - $4 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): $455.94
UTG: $419.93 (VPIP: 21.93, PFR: 18.72, 3Bet Preflop: 9.72, Hands: 190)
MP: $459.76 (VPIP: 25.49, PFR: 19.61, 3Bet Preflop: 10.53, Hands: 52)
CO: $404.00 (VPIP: 31.75, PFR: 25.40, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 193)
BTN: $411.84 (VPIP: 20.97, PFR: 17.74, 3Bet Preflop: 4.17, Hands: 62)
SB: $301.30 (VPIP: 49.51, PFR: 26.73, 3Bet Preflop: 19.51, Hands: 103)

SB posts SB $2.00, Hero posts BB $4.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $6.00) Hero has T 9

fold, fold, CO raises to $10.00, fold, SB calls $8.00, Hero calls $6.00

Flop: ($30.00, 3 players) 6 8 9
SB checks, Hero bets $20.00, CO calls $20.00, fold

Turn: ($70.00, 2 players) 6
Hero bets $40.00, CO calls $40.00

River: ($150.00, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, CO bets $94.00
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-16-2014 , 12:17 PM
I like checking flop for various reasons, for one you really get a better read on he PFR range when you check,

As played I prob just c/f river, I think lots of regs might just fold there weak draws on this turn, So there are more made hands in his range.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-16-2014 , 12:51 PM
Don't like leading flop either.
As played I think you have to call vs someone aggro, stubborn.
What better hands do you check otr which you're leading 2 streets with?
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-16-2014 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user12345
Don't like leading flop either.
As played I think you have to call vs someone aggro, stubborn.
What better hands do you check otr which you're leading 2 streets with?
if hero thinks that villain fires his over pairs and missed draws then hero should check all really big hands at least most of the time I'd have though. It looks like a spot hero should c/r and c/f a fair bit but can of course have a calling range. If calling is +EV and hero has enough air to balance value c/r hands then this could be a call I guess, not sure, but if not then it's a viable c/r hand.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-16-2014 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD
if hero thinks that villain fires his over pairs and missed draws then hero should check all really big hands at least most of the time I'd have though.
not sure bc what are these hands? except some 6x.
And I think I`d prefer to bet it otr.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-16-2014 , 07:26 PM
Hero could have any boat, or quads. At least I,d assume so anyway.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-17-2014 , 12:48 AM
What do you guys think about c/jam?
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-17-2014 , 01:56 AM
What does anybody think about about pre?



As played, I think river should be an easy fold, specifically given the situation with the fish in the middle. First of all, 3 way it is less likely to see see someone run a bluff and with the fish, he conceivably could have just called a big hand on the flop ... though I guess he also could have called with a couple of hands consisting of big spades. I'm folding though.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-17-2014 , 01:41 PM
x/jam is gonna get heroed really often given the overall weirdness of our line and the weakish sizings everybody opts for on every street.

I don't really understand the logic behind the turnbet if you don't plan on C/Calling this specific river. We can't actually expect our opponent to be calling with worse and checking the river back very often. And I disagree on most regs folding their weak draws OTT, we're sizing pretty small (mb we disagree as to what "weak" draws are, he'll fold gutters alright, but there are lots of JT/QT/FD)

With that being said I dislike both flop and turn bets in a vacuum anyway. But I believe if you ever want your line to make sense at all you shouldn't hesitate much on calling that river.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-17-2014 , 04:01 PM
Check jamming river? You must have pride issues... Haha. Prob fold river as played
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-17-2014 , 07:52 PM
I think I would have bet/folded the river. Allot of missed draws/FD+OC hands will bluff us when we check given our line. Don't see many marginal hands checking back after calling two streets.

I think with the relative position we should always check to the PFR.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-17-2014 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
What does anybody think about about pre?



As played, I think river should be an easy fold, specifically given the situation with the fish in the middle. First of all, 3 way it is less likely to see see someone run a bluff and with the fish, he conceivably could have just called a big hand on the flop ... though I guess he also could have called with a couple of hands consisting of big spades. I'm folding though.

Pre looks ok with the fish calling
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-18-2014 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noct18
I think I would have bet/folded the river. Allot of missed draws/FD+OC hands will bluff us when we check given our line. Don't see many marginal hands checking back after calling two streets.
So you want to b/f because you think you will get bluffed if you check? If you think that a lot of missed draws will bluff, then you have a very simple c/c.

My thoughts on the hand:
I think he expects you to very often have a made hand exactly like this when you bet bet then check. Because of the fish in the pot he thinks your leading range initially is likely for value. Also, there are many obviously missed draws on the board, therefore I don't think he would actually try to bluff you because it looks like you are looking to bluffcatch with a marginal made hand.

Check / jam is interesting. I think we could elect to play our nuts like this, it'd probably be a good idea too. Because we aren't perceived to have much air at all, it makes the most sense to rep medium hands OTR and let him bet overpairs for thinish value.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-18-2014 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilliapina
So you want to b/f because you think you will get bluffed if you check? If you think that a lot of missed draws will bluff, then you have a very simple c/c.

My thoughts on the hand:
I think he expects you to very often have a made hand exactly like this when you bet bet then check. Because of the fish in the pot he thinks your leading range initially is likely for value. Also, there are many obviously missed draws on the board, therefore I don't think he would actually try to bluff you because it looks like you are looking to bluffcatch with a marginal made hand.

Check / jam is interesting. I think we could elect to play our nuts like this, it'd probably be a good idea too. Because we aren't perceived to have much air at all, it makes the most sense to rep medium hands OTR and let him bet overpairs for thinish value.
Your right. If I think I'll be bluffed more frequently, than c/cing is the better line.

I think this spot based on my own ranges I would have a value range of like [9Ts,A9s,TT-JJ,sets,89s] and my bluff range is almost completely missed draws. Because I'm so polarized I would tend to bet my entire range.

Betting small on the river (1/4 through 1/3 pot) typically gets my value bets paid off lighter, makes my bluffs cheap (acts as a blocking bet for my weaker hands too), and induces more bluffs.

Depending on your ranges this spot I guess some people c/cing could be better. I think c/cing makes our range more readable and transparent. Since I'm never c/shoving, when I check I'm either intending to c/c a marginal made or c/f air I'm giving up.

Last edited by Noct18; 05-18-2014 at 12:43 PM.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-23-2014 , 02:05 PM
Not really sure how this guy can have anything other than a missed draw here. If he's just calling flop/turn with hands like A9, he's not an aggro villain.

Then again, since hero has pretty much turned his hand face up by donking the flop (which is usually a weak tp move), he might think he's trapping with A9, but since the other hands people donk flop with are draws, he should really want to make them pay.

I dunno, that's how I see things.

Also, fold pre, lol. Why do you want to play that trash out of position? 3bet it on the button if you like, but fold the BB.
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote
05-26-2014 , 09:32 AM
well i think the bet turn is too thin; i would check

anyway i like the lead flop, you often have the best hand
NL400- Donking out top pair, bluffcatch river? Quote

      
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