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NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player

12-01-2008 , 02:46 PM
Kinda standard i guess but I didn't know what to do here.

Villain seems to be a solid aggro "Reg". He played about 32/29/3 w/ 3bet% at 8 over ~150 hands.

I am around 17/14/3.5 with 3bet% at 5 when he has stats on me.

No real history, he 3bet me twice, I folded. I 3bet him once, he folded. He called two of my opens and folded to a cbet.

We have both 50$ stacks.

5 handed, I open Q Q UTG, CO folds, he 3bets to $3.75 from the BU. I call.
(4bet not good right?, when I 4bet, 4bet/fold or 4bet/call? would hate both options)

Flop comes
J K 4

he bets $5.25 into the $7.85 pot.

Can I call here? I think he could have a polarized 3betting range w/o PPs >JJ in it, so no real range he would check behind here ecept maybe QQ. And I don't really expect him to barrel his air on the Turn when I call, but I'm still OOP against an aggro opponent.

What do you think about rasing? I can rep JJ pretty well and maybe KK if he thinks I call that pre (so many ppl at NL25 do this..), but I don't even think he is the type to fold AK, even if he maybe should. And I obv hate rasing just to make him fold his air.

Sooo, just fold?

Last edited by Krabatimo; 12-01-2008 at 03:05 PM. Reason: didn't have the Qh, changes things?
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 02:49 PM
****ty situation you got yourself into by not 4-betting preflop. (PF: 4-bet/call).
Call the flop, have some backdoor draws and hand might still be good.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 02:50 PM
when I look at it again, peeling one seems best I think?
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 03:31 PM
That flop nailed his 3 betting range. It sucks, but I think this is an easy fold.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 03:43 PM
I am thinking about check raising the flop and would like to know if this is pure spew or not? His range is very wide because if he is 3betting from the button with those stats it could even be a suited connector.

His continuation bet is standard and he knows that you will put his range on that type of wet board. Why not c/raise to rep the AK or even the Flush draw. If a heart hits rep the flush by value bet bluffing, infact value bet the turn no matter what hits. Of course this could be way off but with a player showing those tendencies he has jack squat more often than he has a King.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 06:31 PM
4bet/call vs this guy. He might even stack off w JJ,AQ
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 07:28 PM
do not raise this flop. Call and re-eval turn or fold. Check-raising is complete spew.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-01-2008 , 09:35 PM
why do would we 4bet/call this guy? OP labeled villain as a solid reg. Do solid regs really stack off with anything less than AK+ against a 17/14 who raises utg? As played, I would fold flop; your hand is pretty much face up when you just c/c this down and aggro regs will keep on betting.

Also op, why do you have to rep JJ or KK. Are you putting villain on only AA? You have QQ, there is no need to turn your hand into a bluff.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-02-2008 , 01:06 PM
If this guy is playins 32/29 he could have all kinds of hands here. If he is a LAG then he wins most of his money when people fold to his bets. He 3-bets here and he's probably wishing that you had folded. Then he cbets (which really tells you nothing because on this flop he would cbet any two) most likely again hoping you'll fold. Sure, he might have you beat, but his line isn't really that strong. I'd suggest calling the turn for sure. If he barrels the turn then you can consider getting away from it, maybe, but even then ...

Playing against a good lag is tough because every now and then they come up with a real hand. If the only way you play back at him is when you flop the nuts then you can expect to get run over quite a bit. More often than not you've got him beat here IMHO.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-02-2008 , 01:14 PM
dunno why you'd think he could have all kinds of stuff when he has 3b exactly four times out of 150 hands and is facing an open from a tight player utg that he's 200b deep with and has also shown that he's willing to flat opens, etc.

4betting pre sucks imo. i c/f flop. if he has an AQ, oh well. its just not a profitable situation imo. just cuz the guy is laggy doesn't mean you should just throw information that you have on his 3b range out the window.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-02-2008 , 01:30 PM
4bet/fold preflop.
as played I would lead the flop with a 3/4 donk bet, c/c or c/f?
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-02-2008 , 01:56 PM
Someone that runs 32/29 should have a very wide 3bet range on the button, even to a relatively tight UTG raiser. he knows your range has lots of small pairs in it and his range has tons of suited connectors. if he's running 32/29 overall he's probably closer to 48/45 on the button. all signs for me point to 4betting preflop. what to do if he shoves? I'd have to spend some time with pokerstove to see if the odds justify a call, but I'd put his range on JJ+ and AK, throw in TT and AQs if you have some kind of read or history that indicates he'd do that.

as played I'd fold here because calling just makes it look like you're on a draw on a very draw heavy board, which means he's likely going to keep firing at you if he has a made hand or just has the draw himself. doesn't seem likely that you're going to be able to call this flop bet and then check it down.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-02-2008 , 01:58 PM
all signs other than how much he actually 3bets, that is
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-03-2008 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaycareInferno
all signs other than how much he actually 3bets, that is
fair point. I'm just not weighing the 8% 3bet stat that heavily with only 150 hands. it's one of those stats that's very situationally dependent (i.e., you don't have the opportunity to 3bet unless someone in front of you raises.) but your point is well taken - that 3bet stat doesn't point to 4betting. I just don't think it points away from it either.
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote
12-03-2008 , 02:49 PM
Yo, everyone. This guy is loose and aggressive. This is a pretty standard 4bet. And I would not hate getting stacks in unless I'm severly underrolled (in which case, drop down in stakes imo).
NL25 QQ in 3bet pot 200bb deep vs decent aggro player Quote

      
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