Hi there

Very pleased about the preflop spot , so what do we do when the /&(/)&()&/&#####¤¤¤ A hits the flop...?


Villan is a 11/11/2,5 nitty taggy dude
Hero plays this session in some 17/14/3 semiLAG kinda style

Having a hard time just folding flop to a c bet , but should we ? As default line against other regs/sane players ?





Hate the postflop ..... please help

How many hands on villain? What is his fold to 3bet %

sry :-)

+200 hands

fold to 3 bet 70 %

I'm usually leading out with a cbet here...checking looks veryyyyy weak and a competant player would put your range to JJ-KK thinking you'd be folding to that ace...with how it played out I'd be folding the turn

Ok, so if villain opens around 11% of the time in middle position, and folds to 3 bets 70% of the time. That means he is continuing with the top 30% of his original 11% of hands.

How many aces are in that range? Pretty sure villain is 4 betting the other KK or AA pre. Less likely he has AK here as well because we have two blockers.

Also, keep in mind we only have 200 hands on villain so his fold to 3bet stat is far from complete, and villain could also be calling wider here because of you're playing kinda laggy.

c/f flop

All right saber TJ, gonna play around with pokerstove and ranges for a while :-)

We need more of those kinds of answers in this forum imo.

I'm b/f this flop.

b/f the flop, shut down if flatted.

what does b/f accomplish? information? I dont like paying for information really...
No worse hand will call, no better hand will fold...if he has QQ or JJ he will be happy to check it down, so do u

^ depends on how villain reacts to c/bets, but most often they will expect a c/bet on a flop like this 100% of the time, so they should be peeling a turn with worse than A-x a lot of the time -----> hence we can grab a street of value and then try to check it down.

c/f on the flop is ok if we're sure villain is weak-passive, but if he's tight-aggro I prefer b/f.

I agree with this reasoning, but 11/11 in a 3bet pot wont peel with any worse imo

An 11/11/2.5 definitely seems like the type of player that will call a 3B OOP with a hand like JJ and QQ. In my experience, this type of player will almost always call a flop bet with these hands and then fold if bet into on the turn (on an A high board that is).

I also agree with NJD that against a passive player we can c/f this as he will tend to check down all 3 streets with JJ and QQ as he's afraid of the A on board.

Against an aggressive player, I prefer to b/f because if you do check the flop then he will immediately put you on QQ or KK and he will barrel the flop and turn as a bluff to get you off those hands.

All right... villans range (if we use the math in saber TJs post & pokerstove) is 99+ Aqs + and AKo

Against that range we are
67/33 favorite which make preflop a dream senario

On the flop we are 52,5/47,5

im surprised its so difficult for me to play since its a standard spot. We build a pot preflop with a big pair (perfekt play) and a overcard hits the flop and we face a bet ...... happens all the time. And i consider myself some kind of sane pokerplayer

Im still confused actually....

If we bet flop we turn our fine KK hand into some kind of bluff ? Because we are repping the A....


If not we give villian a easy "valuestab" with any A hand and (if villans aggressive) a "bluffstab" with worse.....

Still cant figure out if i actually played it right
..... If we think villian wouldent 2nd barrel without an A in his hand ?

hmmmmm feeling like a weaktight donk at the moment

thanks for all help so far

This is his opening range, not his continuation range after the 3bet, right?

Given this guy's stack size I think check/folding is the best option. You can consider bet/fold if we are deeper. Problem with betting here is that shortstacks can jam over you with a lot lighter of a range than a deepstack.

Continuationrange:

11 % hands , best 30 % of the 11 % = continue after 3 bet

where did u get that from?
U need to think about something else, some players will continute with all pp to setmine and fold Ax hands, others love the A...So there is not best 30% because simply whats best for u is not best for someone else.
Also the sample is too small to look at f23bet, the only reason im advocating c/f is they always put u on AK when u 3bet, so if u check the A and he bets, this means he's not really scared of AK...he will almost always check behind QQ and JJ kinda hands

i don't get "bet flop, give up if called"

only decent reason is because we already got value with KK, now we need to collect that ish

I like your line.

I see many tight tag players at this level just auto bet when you check even when they have JJ here.
I doubt on turn they are going to bet with a worse hand, not saying it doesnt happen but i imagine not.

I thinnk they bet because they dont know what to do on turn and river so try to end the hand or make it 'easier to play'.

Vs a better player i would consider betting flop for balance reasons or you can start checking flop with AQ ect.

c/f flop or call turn.

b/f flop worst line ever, if you bet against this villain type it's to b/c (why?).

1. this guy is an idiot

2. bet the flop pretty much always & expect to take it down majority of the time with him not being able to continue

3. his call reps qq, other pairs looking to setmine & the unlikely Ak & possible AQ

4. you never stack off here or should get stacked either

Agree. And villain isnt even full-stacked so I doubt he's competent enough to put us exactly on QQ-KK and turn his hand into a bluff here.

One thing I want to get clear for my own comprehension as there are countless other threads (one in particular) that advocate checking an A high flop with KK....

Is the advice to bet here because Hero is OOP? In the other threads, it is repeated over and over "only better calls.". What is the reasoning here?