.

LOL no, i was just saying that ppl are applying that we are betting as a bluff, since we are only continuing if called.
no such thing as betting for protection. you should forget about that term sir and you will actually make a lot of progress from it.
you are either betting for value or a bluff, if you don't know why you are betting then you usually call it "for protection" at least most people do... which is ******ed. just make up our minds why are we betting.

I agree b/f is a bread and butter play at uNL for a variety of reasons, but typically it is more useful on later streets such as the turn and river when hands are more clearly defined and typically players are less likely to be bluff raising on later streets for the most part.

this being the flop and the fact that players in general are much more likely to bluff raise, raise with draws and raise with worse for value is the reason why this isn't a easy b/f on this flop. I also think that it is pretty much expected even by not so great players that cbets consist of a wide range of hands so its not like hero is only repping strong hands with his bet. Which in turn opens himself up to being raised by a variety of hands for a variety of good and flawed reasons from villain.

Maybe in this spot a b/f is suboptimal but its not bad. That was my point.

we are talking about a player that we have no read on, 15 hands, so we cant assume he is not a drooling italian or a drunk monkey.

and calling down means what vitheltone said basically. I just assumed everyone knew that, that we actually think on turn and think on river, basic plan is to call down on good cards.

occasionally call and lead turn, to mix things up, but mainly check call against unknown

oh ok misunderstood then.

edit: i said value + protection. the protection is a consequence of the bet as we pick up dead money if he has a hand like A9o (which has 18% equity vs us). we pick up dead money. am looking at baluga's book and it explains it just like this. do u use a different term?

If that means the stacks go in by the river I am convinced that that is -EV.

And im pretty sure a 18/7 almost never turns out to be an drooling Italian (and now stop insulting my family please). Those stats + the fact that he has a full stack is at least some information.

"yeah live players still bet for protection." that's a thing that I have been hammered into by some HSNL guys.

just make up your mind. you are betting mostly for value, but if behind then as a bluff??? i mean if he is drawing you are still betting for value, because you have better equity. so it's not for protection. and fearing a 5 outer betting 2/3 pot is not exactly a reason to bet..


this is much more of a case in 3bet pots than in single raised pots tho and is a much more useful thing, but using the word protection just because you are unsure of where you stand is not something good, i think you see that.

that's something if you force yourself to not use that word you will be forcing yourself to be more exact with reads, narrowing ranges more and therefor playing better and making more green. try it!

no offense meant, didn't know. location tells FTW, italians are huge droolers in poker, want to win every pot, never a bad spot to bluff for them. that's what i meant.

18/7 isn't exactly numbers from a reg tho are they?!

i mean if we are sweating an A falling WTF, if it goes check check then he sees the A, he will be bluffing that card a lot as it is a great bluff card so not exactly a horrible river in a lot of cases. not saying in this one but in general... comes down to leveling, therefor to dynamics, tendencies and reads. some ppl will always barrel the A turn rightfully therefor there is the regs that you should never bluff barrel on A turn as they will keep calling with 3 pair, so you either fire 1 and done, or 3.

tendencies and reads. try and push yourself towards making better reads, all im saying

Im only half Italian, I live in Amsterdam. Italians suck because they got huge ego's and they hardly understand english so they miss out on alot of the literature.

But if his stats indicate anything, he's prob passive/straightforward (like most people at these stakes, unless you play at ongame where everyone is Scandinavian and Italian, or so it seems) and maybe he read the first paragraph of a poker strategy article, who knows...

im sorry but so many things are gonna have to go right for you to call down effecitvely here just think of how many bad cards there are

-any diamond, 5, A, K

u forgot 8 and 3

What a hard spot to be in. I'd fold.